[Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

ChrisCN

Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby ChrisCN » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:02 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:I think this can irritate when you switch between tags a lot.
For now I'm not really happy with any of the options. So let's just do the Ctrl+Double Click.
That's fine by me. (You mean the ALT+Double click, don't you?)

Hierarchies are a very young feature and time will show what the real needs will be.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:38 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:
CintaNotes Developer wrote:Ok, how about Alt+Enter? This seems to be the standard shortcut for the Properties dialog.
Sounds cool.
Oops, its already taken for "Open note and hide main window". Let's change that to Shift+Enter, while using Alt+Enter for Note Properties.

Yes and No. Alt+Enter can be used inside the notes editor, which i checked when i answered yesterday. In the list view it is already used, however. With the increasing usage of shortcuts, those problems might become even worse. This is similiar to the conflict of using "del" to delete a note in the list view, while using "ctrl+del" inside the editor. To give an answer for the problem here: when asking for a shortcut i was thinking for a shortcut inside the notes editor. We can use Alt+Enter here. No problem. For the list view i suggest to not support that feature. This is because of even more conflicting keys. This is not only a technical, but a logical problem too. If you would use Shift+Enter in the list view, the key would be different to the notes editor. In the notes editor you can not use that key, because it will be needed for working with paragraphs in the futures. Thus, for the moment i suggest to not assign a shortcut inside the list view at all.

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:Yes, this is crucial to me. I had the option activated long before it was available in the gui by setting it directly in the settings.ini.

Ok, I think we'll have to do as was originally suggested: autoselect first item everywhere but the search box. Would that be ok for you?

No. But to find a an agreement, how about the following suggestion: Always select the first item. In the search-box the space bar does *not* accept the tag, only ENTER does. In the notes editor, in the tags-field space is supported to accept the tag.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:44 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:I like the way you can express what i mean in a perfect manner :)
I guess two developers will always understand each other ;)

Well, most of the times ;)

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:Because of the (possible slow) "behinde the scences work" of the process, it can not be a standard view, i guess. Right now we have the tag sidebar using the F5 shortcut. Maybe we could have an Alt+F5-combination key to display the "virtual-tags-tree-explorer" as a separate view. I consider this a kind of report view. When this mode is active the search-box could indeed behave differently.
Speed is not the issue here. It is negligible because you only need to calculate for one tag at a time, when you expand it.
I think we should strive to unify these views, because one more view/panel adds more complexity. And I've promised to keep CN simple.

I meant to either show the classical sidebar or the tag-tree-explorer. I didn't think to use them side by side.

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:It is somewhat similar, but the virtual-tags-tree-explorer fits it better.
I'm afraid many people will take virtual-tags-tree-explorer for real-tag-tree-explorer and become mad because the same tags appear everywhere))

If one doesn't understand the need for it, don't use it, until you do :) To me the tag-tree-explorer is like a report view. It is for navigating and grouping notes. And in the future when printing is supported it will be extremely handy to print lists, in a logical grouped order.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:50 am

jaroet wrote:But in the second level you give the example:
projects/customer-A/project-A
projects/customer-A/project-B

If you work with "projects" as the search-item then why is it presented like this and not like:
projects/project-A/customer-A
projects/project-B/customer-A

The reason is, that in my example you have two notes. project-A is assigned one time only, same applies to project-B. However customer-A is assigned to both notes. As said, building up the tree is for groups having count > 1.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:53 am

ChrisCN wrote:The next question to me is:
What can we do with this tag-explorer? Click on its tags to filter the note list?
Or is this some kind of grouping that will be used to represent the notes list in an ordered way?

The tag-tree-explorer is like a report view. It is for navigating and grouping notes. In the future when printing is supported it will be extremely handy to print lists, in a logical grouped order.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby Noddy330 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:43 am

ChrisCN wrote:hooray - just got home
now I have the choice to watch the EM final or test the Beta (I will try to do both) :D

The first thing I noticed is that my tag '(/)status' got separated into a hierarchy - the character / got a special meaning.
Not a big problem for me - but maybe others have used the / more often within tags.

regards
chris


I too was using / in tags - where I tagged 'friends birthday notes' with the date of their next birthday in the format yyyy/mm/dd, e.g. 2009/09/18, to get them ordered by occurrence in the Tag Sidebar. They are now hierarchical tags. Not a problem for me.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby hey » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:11 pm

If I type the first letter of a tag in the Tag editbox on the New Note window a drop-down list appears showing all tags that start with that letter. However, if I select this character and type a character (to replace the selected character) no drop-down list appears unless I type another character.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:54 pm

Alex, would you mind adding a primitiv method to print a single note? As an easy way of coding i suggest to limit the functionality inside the notes editor using Ctrl+P printing one single note only. Limit the functionality to the commercial version. Simply export to a temporary html-file and call ShellExecute('print',...). Thank you. Thomas
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:59 pm

hey wrote:If I type the first letter of a tag in the Tag editbox on the New Note window a drop-down list appears showing all tags that start with that letter. However, if I select this character and type a character (to replace the selected character) no drop-down list appears unless I type another character.

I confirm for 1.6.2. also. You can enter multiple characters, select them using the mouse or the keyboard, press a new character. The input gets deleted, but the dropbox will appear only after you enter another character.
ChrisCN

Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby ChrisCN » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:13 am

I think I found a little bug regarding the hierarchy feature:

If you have a note with the tag:
task/open/waiting/martin

and you open the dialog to add or remove tags
then you remove task/open/waiting/martin
--> CN removes this tag but keeps task/open/waiting
so it is only a step up in the hierarchy!
ChrisCN

Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby ChrisCN » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:28 am

I found a little annoyance removing tags:
(But this is not a new bug - also v1.6 has this behaviour)

In the dialog to remove tags the auto-suggestion for the tags always shows ALL tags.
It should be filtered to show only those tags that exist for the note(s) in question.

It would also be convenient if the F4 dialog could be called within an open note.
Have you ever tried to delete tags like :task/()open/(...)waiting/martin
you can not select the whole tag with a double click (because of the special characters it contains)
So F4 would be a great help here (but the note must be closed to use it).

Maybe this would also be of help in this situation:
http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/869 ... om-a-note/

--> but to me this sounds like a new entry for the roadmap
what do you think alex?
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:19 am

ChrisCN wrote:That's fine by me. (You mean the ALT+Double click, don't you?)
Hierarchies are a very young feature and time will show what the real needs will be.

Well it is either Alt or Ctrl + DblClick. One of them will cross out all children, the other will cross out all other tags.

Thomas Lohrum wrote: If you would use Shift+Enter in the list view, the key would be different to the notes editor. In the notes editor you can not use that key, because it will be needed for working with paragraphs in the futures. Thus, for the moment i suggest to not assign a shortcut inside the list view at all.

No, I meant let's change the current Alt+Enter to Shift+Enter, and use Alt+Enter to call up the Properties window.

Thomas Lohrum wrote:No. But to find a an agreement, how about the following suggestion: Always select the first item. In the search-box the space bar does *not* accept the tag, only ENTER does. In the notes editor, in the tags-field space is supported to accept the tag.

Still imperfect since it will turn the "Accept suggestions on spacebar" option to a blatant lie - it won't work everywhere.
But I guess this is the case where pragmatism must be preferred over logical purity, so I say "aye") Let's do it this way.
And to be on the safest side, there will be an option in the settings file to enable accepting on spacebar even in the search box.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:29 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:I meant to either show the classical sidebar or the tag-tree-explorer. I didn't think to use them side by side.

Well it doesn't really matter. It is still two very similar looking views with very different behavior.

Thomas Lohrum wrote:If one doesn't understand the need for it, don't use it, until you do :) To me the tag-tree-explorer is like a report view. It is for navigating and grouping notes. And in the future when printing is supported it will be extremely handy to print lists, in a logical grouped order.

Ok, I guess we need to add it to the roadmap then?
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:30 am

hey wrote:If I type the first letter of a tag in the Tag editbox on the New Note window a drop-down list appears showing all tags that start with that letter. However, if I select this character and type a character (to replace the selected character) no drop-down list appears unless I type another character.

I confirm. Probably won't be fixed in 1.7, but we'll fix this later. Thanks!
Alex
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:32 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote: If you would use Shift+Enter in the list view, the key would be different to the notes editor. In the notes editor you can not use that key, because it will be needed for working with paragraphs in the futures. Thus, for the moment i suggest to not assign a shortcut inside the list view at all.

No, I meant let's change the current Alt+Enter to Shift+Enter, and use Alt+Enter to call up the Properties window.

So i will be able to use Alt+Enter to call up the properties dialog in the list view *and* and inside the notes editor?

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:No. But to find a an agreement, how about the following suggestion: Always select the first item. In the search-box the space bar does *not* accept the tag, only ENTER does. In the notes editor, in the tags-field space is supported to accept the tag.

Still imperfect since it will turn the "Accept suggestions on spacebar" option to a blatant lie - it won't work everywhere.
But I guess this is the case where pragmatism must be preferred over logical purity, so I say "aye") Let's do it this way.
And to be on the safest side, there will be an option in the settings file to enable accepting on spacebar even in the search box.

It would satisfy me, to simply remove the option at all. In general in the search-box, select first item, but accept only with ENTER. In the tags-field in the editor, select first item and accept the tag either using ENTER or SPACE.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:30 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:I meant to either show the classical sidebar or the tag-tree-explorer. I didn't think to use them side by side.

Well it doesn't really matter. It is still two very similar looking views with very different behavior.

Thomas Lohrum wrote:If one doesn't understand the need for it, don't use it, until you do :) To me the tag-tree-explorer is like a report view. It is for navigating and grouping notes. And in the future when printing is supported it will be extremely handy to print lists, in a logical grouped order.

Ok, I guess we need to add it to the roadmap then?

Done. You can vote for it http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/116796-tag-tree-explorer/
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby ChrisCN » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:49 pm

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby jaroet » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:20 pm

I noticed ... a lot of different subjects are discussed in this thread. Making different posts for those subjects might by handy to keep the overview (and the right forum offcourse ;) ;)
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:59 pm

ChrisCN wrote:I think I found a little bug regarding the hierarchy feature:

If you have a note with the tag:
task/open/waiting/martin

and you open the dialog to add or remove tags
then you remove task/open/waiting/martin
--> CN removes this tag but keeps task/open/waiting
so it is only a step up in the hierarchy!

Thanks Chris, I agree that this is questionable behavior. However what would you do if this would be really what you intended?
It is clear that sometimes all tags need to be removed, and sometimes we just want to remove the bottom-level tag.
But popping up a message box for each of the multi-level tags is clearly out of the question. So we need to follow the principle of the least astonishment, and pick a sensible default. I'd say that removing all tags from a given hierarchy is more natural in this case, as it is the same as when you remove the same mutilevel tag from the "Tags" field while editing a note.

So what to do if you just want to remove the bottom-level tag (say "a/b/c")? With the Add/Remove tags window, there still remains a way: write "a/b/c" in tags to remove while writing "a/b" in tags to add. (But in general it is much easier to do from the Tag Sidebar).
Maybe anyone has a better idea?
Alex
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 1.7 Beta 1

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:27 pm

ChrisCN wrote:In the dialog to remove tags the auto-suggestion for the tags always shows ALL tags.
It should be filtered to show only those tags that exist for the note(s) in question.

Yes, this is something I wanted to do long ago.. and forgot every time ;) This time around I won't forget!)

ChrisCN wrote:It would also be convenient if the F4 dialog could be called within an open note.
Have you ever tried to delete tags like :task/()open/(...)waiting/martin
you can not select the whole tag with a double click (because of the special characters it contains)
So F4 would be a great help here (but the note must be closed to use it).

But I can change the tags field to always expand till the space on doubleclick! Wouldn't it be even better?
Alex

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