[Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:49 am

ChrisCN wrote:If manual sorting order is not preserved with XML export/import -> does this really explain the symptom?
I noticed that the notes that had NO manual order seem to be shown different if manual sorting mode is active (see sreenshot).
For the 'old'/imported notes: the newest comes last
For the newly created notes: the newest comes first (top of the list)

There's no such thing as "no manual order". In the DB, every note without exception has a number assigned to it which defines its place in the manual order.
When you import XML file, the notes are created in the order they appear in the file and this also defines the manual order.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:58 am

jkoerner wrote:Wow - Thanks for your reply, and I'm glad you're feeling better (I've heard there's a nasty bug going around, very unpleasant. Thanks for waiting until you're uncontagious to get back to us ;)

Thanks ;) Its really great to have less than 38C body temperature again :)

So I'm glad I bought CintaNotes, even though I had a bad experience with it right away, since I know it will only get better and better.

Glad you're feeling this way! And I agree with your thoughts about developers missing the point in regard of understanding their users.
I strive to be as receptive as I can (and especially to useful critics), however I know that my thinking is oftentimes "tainted" with being
"too much into the topic".

So, I think that preparing the ability to quickly notify all customers of a critically important event, via email, is the best idea.

OK I've now created a MailChimp-powered newsletter which you can subscribe to directly on http://cintanotes.com.
Now an interesting question: do you think it would be ok to automatically subscribe all existing license holders? (Of course there will be an unsubscribe link in every mail). Thanks for your opinion!

UPD: Jon, I've re-read your message and I wonder if I've missed the point again: did you mean that we should have two mailing lists: first the "usual" one, which you can subscribe to, and the other one for emergencies, sent to all paying customers?
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby ChrisCN » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:09 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Now an interesting question: do you think it would be ok to automatically subscribe all existing license holders? (Of course there will be an unsubscibe link in every mail). Thanks for your opinion!
At least it would be fine with me.
And I think it would be OK in general if you use it for "important infos" and not for ads.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:21 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Now an interesting question: do you think it would be ok to automatically subscribe all existing license holders? (Of course there will be an unsubscibe link in every mail). Thanks for your opinion!

No easy answer. Personally it would be convenient to me. As for law issues, you might not be allowed to do so, unless you have your user's agreement already by signing the license agreement. I am not a lawyer though. An alternative could be an announcement together with the next release. Also the setup/install of CN could offer an option to sign in.

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby jkoerner » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:57 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:an interesting question: do you think it would be ok to automatically subscribe all existing license holders? (Of course there will be an unsubscribe link in every mail). Thanks for your opinion!

UPD: Jon, I've re-read your message and I wonder if I've missed the point again: did you mean that we should have two mailing lists: first the "usual" one, which you can subscribe to, and the other one for emergencies, sent to all paying customers?


Hi - Yes, the latter is what I meant. I don't think it's okay for you to subscribe people to the mailing list, which in my mind is intended for people who want to be informed about general CintaNotes news (i.e., "New version 2.xx released today", or "Holiday 25% off sale starts tomorrow!", or etc.). Not everybody would want to receive such notices.

So, yes what I thought is that you should maintain a list of ALL customers' email addresses, so you could send out an urgent notice to everyone, if/when such a need arises. That, then, would be separate from the subscriber-mailing-list. (You might never even use this list - unless an emergency situation arises.)
Last edited by jkoerner on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:59 am

Chris, Thomas, thanks for your opinions!

ChrisCN wrote:At least it would be fine with me. And I think it would be OK in general if you use it for "important infos" and not for ads.

And what about usage tips, for example, or info about upcoming discounts?

Thomas wrote:No easy answer. Personally it would be convenient to me. As for law issues, you might not be allowed to do so, unless you have your user's agreement already by signing the license agreement. I am not a lawyer though. An alternative could be an announcement together with the next release. Also the setup/install of CN could offer an option to sign in.


No, there's nothing about newsletter in the license agreement..
About announcement with release and adding an option to installer - good ideas, thanks!
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby ChrisCN » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:15 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Chris, Thomas, thanks for your opinions!

ChrisCN wrote:At least it would be fine with me. And I think it would be OK in general if you use it for "important infos" and not for ads.

And what about usage tips, for example, or info about upcoming discounts?!
I think with infos about upcoming discounts you are already in a delicate situation which Thomas mentioned. I am no lawer and I don't know how other countries handle it!
It should help that the existing license holders are your customers and do have a contract with you. So I see no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to contact them and give them important informations (like to save them from a loss). But if you inform them about an upcoming discount this could be considered as an ad and (as far as I know) in some countries the law protects the customers from such activities.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:50 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:And what about usage tips, for example, or info about upcoming discounts?

Stop. I can already inform myself with the roadmap and the forum and am able to subscribe to these to receive notification. As for the newsletter, this should be preserved for high priority information only. I don't want to be flushed with even more (redundant) information.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:55 pm

ChrisCN wrote:But if you inform them about an upcoming discount this could be considered as an ad and (as far as I know) in some countries the law protects the customers from such activities.

However, if the user has explicitly assigned to the newsletter "opt in", this should be ok. As said in my other post, the news letter should be for high priority information only. It's ok to me to receive information on saving money. ;) Primarily, this is interesting for users who have not yet bought a license. So the newsletter might be of high value for them.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby ChrisCN » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:16 pm

Thomas Lohrum wrote:
ChrisCN wrote:But if you inform them about an upcoming discount this could be considered as an ad and (as far as I know) in some countries the law protects the customers from such activities.

However, if the user has explicitly assigned to the newsletter "opt in", this should be ok.
I fully agree with you. ;) I just tried to give my opinion about adding existing license holder to the newletter without their explicit permission.

After this disussion I would use two mechanisms:
1) a mailinglist containing all existing customers -> to inform them about really important news (e.g. major bugs)
2) a newsletter with opt-in (maybe during installation process) for additional informations
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby RSchiaffino » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:47 pm

ChrisCN wrote:Hi RSchiaffino

One additional remark:
If you have tags that are marked as 'Auto deleted' in the proberties of the tag
then the tag magically disappears from the section after you have moved all notes with this tag to a new section
(but is still there and also shown in the new section).
--> I think this is the behaviour you are searching for!?


Well, sort of... I actually normally don't use "Auto deleted" because I prefer to leave empty tags in my projects - but if I don't use "auto-Delete", then the empty tags also appear in the other sections.

I confess I'm finding the interaction of the tags with the sections rather opaque: on the one hand, the tags are in common to all sections. On the other hand, if you use "Auto delete", and you move them to one section to another, they are no longer visible in the first section (which *seems* to imply they do not exist there).
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby ChrisCN » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:58 am

RSchiaffino wrote:
ChrisCN wrote:I confess I'm finding the interaction of the tags with the sections rather opaque: on the one hand, the tags are in common to all sections. On the other hand, if you use "Auto delete", and you move them to one section to another, they are no longer visible in the first section (which *seems* to imply they do not exist there).
I must admit that I also didn't expect this behaviour but wanted to share my finding ;)
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:41 am

jkoerner wrote:Hi - Yes, the latter is what I meant. I don't think it's okay for you to subscribe people to the mailing list, which in my mind is intended for people who want to be informed about general CintaNotes news (i.e., "New version 2.xx released today", or "Holiday 25% off sale starts tomorrow!", or etc.). Not everybody would want to receive such notices.

So, yes what I thought is that you should maintain a list of ALL customers' email addresses, so you could send out an urgent notice to everyone, if/when such a need arises. That, then, would be separate from the subscriber-mailing-list. (You might never even use this list - unless an emergency situation arises.)


Thanks for the advice, I think you're right. We need two mailing lists. I've created a .csv file with all paying customers addresses, so that in case of real emergency I can send the urgent notice to them.

The newsletter that I've created yesterday (where people explicitly opt-in) will be then more broad and will include usage tips, discount announcements, etc.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:52 am

ChrisCN wrote:After this disussion I would use two mechanisms:
1) a mailinglist containing all existing customers -> to inform them about really important news (e.g. major bugs)
2) a newsletter with opt-in (maybe during installation process) for additional informations


That's exactly what Jon has recommended and what I've been thinking ;) It's settled then.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:59 am

Hi Riccardo,

RSchiaffino wrote:I confess I'm finding the interaction of the tags with the sections rather opaque: on the one hand, the tags are in common to all sections. On the other hand, if you use "Auto delete", and you move them to one section to another, they are no longer visible in the first section (which *seems* to imply they do not exist there).

I understand the confusion the current tag/section system produces, but I couldn't find a better solution.
Here's how it works:
1) Tags are global. We could devise no easy way to tie a tag to a particular section (esp. since multiple or even all sections can be active).
2) To display all tags in every section would be not convenient, there would be many irrelevant tags with usage count of 0 => hence, CintaNotes only displays those tags which are really used in active section selection (i.e. only those tags are displayed, which in currently selected selctions have use count greater than zero).
3) But not auto-deleted tags can have use count of 0 in every section, so they will never be visible! Solution => always display non-auto-deleted tags.

If you come up with a better algorithm how to handle this, I'd be really grateful!
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:19 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:If you come up with a better algorithm how to handle this, I'd be really grateful!

I admit i have not used sections, yet. I have read a lot about it in the forum. From what i read, imo the current implementation makes sense. I don't want local tags. There could be duplicate names, e.g. section1.tag1 and sections2.tag1. How do you do a global search? I accept, that sections have advantages, while the same time they have limitations.

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:33 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:I admit i have not used sections, yet. I have read a lot about it in the forum. From what i read, imo the current implementation makes sense. I don't want local tags. There could be duplicate names, e.g. section1.tag1 and sections2.tag1. How do you do a global search? I accept, that sections have advantages, while the same time they have limitations.


I think I have some idea how to make current implementation less confusing:
1) Display all tags in all sections by default, the "auto-deleted" property will have no influence on whether the tag is displayed;
2) Add a "view mode" switch to the tag sidebar:
Now we have : "Display Related Only"
I suggest: "Display: All Tags / Used Tags/ Related Tags".
("Used" will display all tags with use count [in current section selection] > 0. If you have some non-autodeleted tags which are not used, you will have to switch to "All" to see and edit them.)
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:39 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:I think I have some idea how to make current implementation less confusing:

Sounds interesting :)
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby ChrisCN » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:24 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:1) Display all tags in all sections by default, the "auto-deleted" property will have no influence on whether the tag is displayed;
2) Add a "view mode" switch to the tag sidebar:
Now we have : "Display Related Only"
I suggest: "Display: All Tags / Used Tags/ Related Tags".
To me this sounds like a good idea - much clearer and with no drawback I can think of.

:?: By the way: Is there a shortcut to jump to the virtual section 'All'?
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.0.1 Final

Postby RSchiaffino » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:26 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Hi Riccardo,

RSchiaffino wrote:I confess I'm finding the interaction of the tags with the sections rather opaque: on the one hand, the tags are in common to all sections. On the other hand, if you use "Auto delete", and you move them to one section to another, they are no longer visible in the first section (which *seems* to imply they do not exist there).

I understand the confusion the current tag/section system produces, but I couldn't find a better solution.
Here's how it works:
1) Tags are global. We could devise no easy way to tie a tag to a particular section (esp. since multiple or even all sections can be active).
2) To display all tags in every section would be not convenient, there would be many irrelevant tags with usage count of 0 => hence, CintaNotes only displays those tags which are really used in active section selection (i.e. only those tags are displayed, which in currently selected selctions have use count greater than zero).
3) But not auto-deleted tags can have use count of 0 in every section, so they will never be visible! Solution => always display non-auto-deleted tags.

If you come up with a better algorithm how to handle this, I'd be really grateful!


Hi Alex, this sounds good to me ... now that I understand how it is supposed to work. The only thing I would add is a warning message when trying to delete "empty" tags, as mentioned previously in this thread.

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