Sections - first impression

Thomas Lohrum
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Sections - first impression

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:56 pm

I've just started using sections.

My first impressions:
  • When switching between them, i wondered why the "All" section is not included. It is nice to have a shortcut (ctrl+shift+space) for it, still it might be interesting to include it to the regular switch-mechanism.
  • The coloring gets quite ugly, because of the paling of the selected color, e.g. red becomes pink.
  • The tag sidebar is not part of the coloring scheme. I think it would be more consistent to do so.

Thomas
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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby ChrisCN » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:29 pm

Thomas Lohrum wrote:My first impressions:
  • When switching between them, i wondered why the "All" section is not included. It is nice to have a shortcut (ctrl+shift+space) for it, still it might be interesting to include it to the regular switch-mechanism.
  • The coloring gets quite ugly, because of the paling of the selected color, e.g. red becomes pink.

Thomas
Hi Thomas - Great minds think alike. :lol:
Exactly how I feel.
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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:52 pm

ChrisCN wrote:Hi Thomas - Great minds think alike. :lol:
Exactly how I feel.

:D :D :D

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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:35 am

Thomas, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Thomas Lohrum wrote:When switching between them, i wondered why the "All" section is not included. It is nice to have a shortcut (ctrl+shift+space) for it, still it might be interesting to include it to the regular switch-mechanism.

This is a usability problem which we are already trying to solve (this week we hired a freelance UX-designer to help us with that).
"All" is not a section, it is a button. But people keep thinking that it is a section, because it looks almost like a tab.

Thomas Lohrum wrote:The coloring gets quite ugly, because of the paling of the selected color, e.g. red becomes pink.

Yes, I think it can be fixed by allowing the user only to pick the hue (via a slider), and fixing the lightness and saturation values to ensure that
the tab and notes look good.

Thomas Lohrum wrote:The tag sidebar is not part of the coloring scheme. I think it would be more consistent to do so.

I thought about this, but then what would change when you switch color schemes? Only the icon? It will become rather pointless.
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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:21 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:When switching between them, i wondered why the "All" section is not included. It is nice to have a shortcut (ctrl+shift+space) for it, still it might be interesting to include it to the regular switch-mechanism.
This is a usability problem which we are already trying to solve (this week we hired a freelance UX-designer to help us with that). "All" is not a section, it is a button. But people keep thinking that it is a section, because it looks almost like a tab.

I knew it is a button. Still, it made more sense to me, to think of it as a special section, namely the entire database.

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:The tag sidebar is not part of the coloring scheme. I think it would be more consistent to do so.
I thought about this, but then what would change when you switch color schemes? Only the icon? It will become rather pointless.

I don't know what icon you mean. But imo, all ui elements beneath the TABs should have the same coloring scheme, including the searchbar and the tag bar.

Thomas
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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:49 am

I keep up creating notes that end up being stored in the "wrong" section. I know the feature to select a section in the notes editor is on the road for 2.1. I am looking forward to this. As for my personal taste, i'd like to see it being a combobox beneath the link field. I'd prefer this over an extra dialog as is with the notes list.

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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:45 pm

Thomas Lohrum wrote:I knew it is a button. Still, it made more sense to me, to think of it as a special section, namely the entire database.

So you think if it really _was_ a section, with its own view state, it would be easier to understand and more convenient?

Thomas Lohrum wrote:I don't know what icon you mean. But imo, all ui elements beneath the TABs should have the same coloring scheme, including the searchbar and the tag bar.

I mean the main application icon. Now it changes when you change selected option in the View/Color Theme menu.
Also which color should the tag sidebar have when more than one section is selected?

Thomas Lohrum wrote:I keep up creating notes that end up being stored in the "wrong" section. I know the feature to select a section in the notes editor is on the road for 2.1. I am looking forward to this. As for my personal taste, i'd like to see it being a combobox beneath the link field. I'd prefer this over an extra dialog as is with the notes list.

You can be sure that this will be implemented (was planned from the very beginning). But I'd like to know more of how it happens that the notes end up in the wrong section. Does is happen on clipping?
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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:22 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:I knew it is a button. Still, it made more sense to me, to think of it as a special section, namely the entire database.
So you think if it really _was_ a section, with its own view state, it would be easier to understand and more convenient?

Yes. The only difference is that section 'All' has a shortcut. Which gets me to the request, that TABs should have an optional shortcut, that can be configured in the properties dialog of the TAB.

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:I don't know what icon you mean. But imo, all ui elements beneath the TABs should have the same coloring scheme, including the searchbar and the tag bar.
I mean the main application icon. Now it changes when you change selected option in the View/Color Theme menu.

Sorry. I don't get it. Do you mean the icon in the taskbar and the Alt+Tab dialog? If so, the icon color does not change on my system.

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Also which color should the tag sidebar have when more than one section is selected?

Cool, because of your question i realized i can manually select TABs by ctrl+clicking on them. I wasn't aware of this feature. Hard to tell, which color would be best. Maybe the one, that was active when the first TAB was activated. What is most important to me, and what i use all the time, is having one TAB selected. To me the color of this section should apply to the tag-sidebar.

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:I keep up creating notes that end up being stored in the "wrong" section. I know the feature to select a section in the notes editor is on the road for 2.1. I am looking forward to this. As for my personal taste, i'd like to see it being a combobox beneath the link field. I'd prefer this over an extra dialog as is with the notes list.
You can be sure that this will be implemented (was planned from the very beginning). But I'd like to know more of how it happens that the notes end up in the wrong section. Does is happen on clipping?

Sorry for the confusion. There is no bug. What i am trying to say is, that when i create a new note using Ctrl+Shift+F12, the note will be added to the last active section. However, this might not be the section, to which the note should belong to. So after creating and saving the note, i must switch to the notes list and cut/paste the note to the proper section.

Thomas
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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:32 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:As for my personal taste, i'd like to see it being a combobox beneath the link field. I'd prefer this over an extra dialog as is with the notes list.
You can be sure that this will be implemented (was planned from the very beginning)

Do you have plans to add a selection box to the editor, rather than adding an extra dialog?

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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:56 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:Yes. The only difference is that section 'All' has a shortcut. Which gets me to the request, that TABs should have an optional shortcut, that can be configured in the properties dialog of the TAB.


Actually there already are shortcuts for individual tabs: Ctrl+1..0 for switching and Ctrl+Shift+1..0 adding/remove to/from selection.
Also, what do you think of the following "dilemma": pressing the "All" button is equivalent to Ctrl+Clicking all tabs which are currently not selected. Imagine all but one tab are selected. The view state (search and sorting parameters) is from the tab which was selected first. This is OK. But now if we add the last tab to selection, the view state must be switched to the one configured for the "All" tab. Don't you think it would be strange and unexpected?

Thomas Lohrum wrote:Sorry. I don't get it. Do you mean the icon in the taskbar and the Alt+Tab dialog? If so, the icon color does not change on my system.

Yes, I mean that icon. If the color of the icon doesn't change when you switch color themes, it is probably a bug. What color resolution is your display using now?

Thomas Lohrum wrote:Cool, because of your question i realized i can manually select TABs by ctrl+clicking on them. I wasn't aware of this feature. Hard to tell, which color would be best. Maybe the one, that was active when the first TAB was activated. What is most important to me, and what i use all the time, is having one TAB selected. To me the color of this section should apply to the tag-sidebar.

OK, I think using the color of the first selected tab would be a good idea, since the view state is also taken from this tab.

Thomas Lohrum wrote:Sorry for the confusion. There is no bug. What i am trying to say is, that when i create a new note using Ctrl+Shift+F12, the note will be added to the last active section. However, this might not be the section, to which the note should belong to. So after creating and saving the note, i must switch to the notes list and cut/paste the note to the proper section.

Maybe you could take advantage of assigning some tab as your inbox? Or every time the target section is different?
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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:58 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:Do you have plans to add a selection box to the editor, rather than adding an extra dialog?

Yes, sure. No need to breed extra dialogs ;)
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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:30 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:Yes. The only difference is that section 'All' has a shortcut. Which gets me to the request, that TABs should have an optional shortcut, that can be configured in the properties dialog of the TAB.
Actually there already are shortcuts for individual tabs: Ctrl+1..0 for switching and Ctrl+Shift+1..0 adding/remove to/from selection.

Ok, well not really ;) For example i got used to the fact that Ctrl+3 is my key for "Favorites". But then i want to rearrange the TABs, because i have added a new TAB. Now my "Favorites" TAB moved to Ctrl+4. Now i have to get used to using another key. And in a couple of weeks..... As for selecting TABs using Ctrl+Shift+1..0 i don't have a need for this. It also makes things more complicated. Usually people use the mouse for selecting items, don't they?

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Also, what do you think of the following "dilemma": pressing the "All" button is equivalent to Ctrl+Clicking all tabs which are currently not selected. Imagine all but one tab are selected. The view state (search and sorting parameters) is from the tab which was selected first. This is OK. But now if we add the last tab to selection, the view state must be switched to the one configured for the "All" tab. Don't you think it would be strange and unexpected?

As the programmer you must have a technical solution and using the settings of 'All' is an option. After all, i think your example is just in theory. Why would i want to Ctrl+Click every TAB to select all of them, when i can simply click 'All'?

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:Sorry. I don't get it. Do you mean the icon in the taskbar and the Alt+Tab dialog? If so, the icon color does not change on my system.

Yes, I mean that icon. If the color of the icon doesn't change when you switch color themes, it is probably a bug. What color resolution is your display using now?

True Color. 32-Bit.

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:Sorry for the confusion. There is no bug. What i am trying to say is, that when i create a new note using Ctrl+Shift+F12, the note will be added to the last active section. However, this might not be the section, to which the note should belong to. So after creating and saving the note, i must switch to the notes list and cut/paste the note to the proper section.
Maybe you could take advantage of assigning some tab as your inbox? Or every time the target section is different?

I have assigned a TAB as an inbox. Is this actually used for new notes created using Ctrl+Shift+F12 or is it used for clipping only? Nevertheless, in my day to day work i create notes that must be saved in different sections, e.g. [Computer] [Project1] [Private].

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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:13 pm

Thomas Lohrum wrote:Ok, well not really ;) For example i got used to the fact that Ctrl+3 is my key for "Favorites". But then i want to rearrange the TABs, because i have added a new TAB. Now my "Favorites" TAB moved to Ctrl+4. Now i have to get used to using another key. And in a couple of weeks.....

Such a problem exists, but how likely it is that you'll move these tabs again?
However I'm not against adding a possiblity to assign a shortcut for switching to a tab - as long as it is an optional parameter in the section parameters dialog. :) So I think we can add it to the roadmap.

Thomas Lohrum wrote:As for selecting TABs using Ctrl+Shift+1..0 i don't have a need for this. It also makes things more complicated. Usually people use the mouse for selecting items, don't they?

Some people prefer mouse, some prefer keyboard.
I find myself preferring keyboard in the morning (except when I'm drinking coffee and hold a cup in my left hand), and mouse in the evening. Also for Ctrl+Clicking you need mouse AND keyboard anyway.

Thomas Lohrum wrote:As the programmer you must have a technical solution and using the settings of 'All' is an option. After all, i think your example is just in theory. Why would i want to Ctrl+Click every TAB to select all of them, when i can simply click 'All'?

I admit this is a stretch, but still the UI shouldn't contain obviously illogical behavior.
But after some thinking I realized that auto-switching to the "All" tab can resolve this dilemma nicely.

Thomas Lohrum wrote:True Color. 32-Bit.

Interesting! Could you please make a screenshot of the main window with the View/Color Theme menu where something other than "Blue" is selected?

Thomas Lohrum wrote:I have assigned a TAB as an inbox. Is this actually used for new notes created using Ctrl+Shift+F12 or is it used for clipping only? Nevertheless, in my day to day work i create notes that must be saved in different sections, e.g. [Computer] [Project1] [Private].


The Inbox section is used both for clipped notes and for notes taken with the "New Note" hotkey.
It is also used if you have multiple sections selected and press the Ins key (the Inbox section must be one of the sections selected).
Otherwise CN uses the section that was selected first.
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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:33 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:Ok, well not really ;) For example i got used to the fact that Ctrl+3 is my key for "Favorites". But then i want to rearrange the TABs, because i have added a new TAB. Now my "Favorites" TAB moved to Ctrl+4. Now i have to get used to using another key. And in a couple of weeks.....
Such a problem exists, but how likely it is that you'll move these tabs again? However I'm not against adding a possiblity to assign a shortcut for switching to a tab - as long as it is an optional parameter in the section parameters dialog. :) So I think we can add it to the roadmap.

Done. You can vote for it here: http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/150 ... figurable/

CintaNotes Developer wrote:But after some thinking I realized that auto-switching to the "All" tab can resolve this dilemma nicely.

I am happy i was able to convince you about the change. :) To make the UI smoother, consider giving the 'All' button the same width as a regular TAB button, even though this will take some extra space. The 'All' button should look just like all other buttons.

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:True Color. 32-Bit.
Interesting! Could you please make a screenshot of the main window with the View/Color Theme menu where something other than "Blue" is selected?

Sent by E-Mail.

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:I have assigned a TAB as an inbox. Is this actually used for new notes created using Ctrl+Shift+F12 or is it used for clipping only? Nevertheless, in my day to day work i create notes that must be saved in different sections, e.g. [Computer] [Project1] [Private].
The Inbox section is used both for clipped notes and for notes taken with the "New Note" hotkey. It is also used if you have multiple sections selected and press the Ins key (the Inbox section must be one of the sections selected).Otherwise CN uses the section that was selected first.

Seems like we have a bug here. Any new note gets inserted to the last active section, regardless of my inbox setting. This is true for using the global hotkey, as well as inserting a new note from the notes list using the INS key.

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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby ChrisCN » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:36 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:
CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:Ok, well not really ;) For example i got used to the fact that Ctrl+3 is my key for "Favorites". But then i want to rearrange the TABs, because i have added a new TAB. Now my "Favorites" TAB moved to Ctrl+4. Now i have to get used to using another key. And in a couple of weeks.....
Such a problem exists, but how likely it is that you'll move these tabs again? However I'm not against adding a possiblity to assign a shortcut for switching to a tab - as long as it is an optional parameter in the section parameters dialog. :) So I think we can add it to the roadmap.

Done. You can vote for it here: http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/150 ... figurable/
Thomas
I already voted,
but want to add that this is only a 'detour' to our final aim
http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/3800-fully-configurable-keyboard-shortcuts/ - isn't it.
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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:38 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:Done. You can vote for it here: http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/150 ... figurable/

Thanks.

Thomas Lohrum wrote:I am happy i was able to convince you about the change. :) To make the UI smoother, consider giving the 'All' button the same width as a regular TAB button, even though this will take some extra space. The 'All' button should look just like all other buttons.

Actually I'm thinking to make it a tab, so it won't be a button anymore ;) But I don't agree about the width: probably many people would complain that it takes too much space. Also since it won't be a regular tab (almost none of the commands from the tab context menu will be applicable to it), the more it differs from regulars tabs, the better.

Thomas Lohrum wrote:Sent by E-Mail.

Thanks! From what I see there, you haven't changed the color theme, only switched the section. I was talking about the "View/Color Theme" option ("Ansicht/Farbschema" in German). :)

Thomas Lohrum wrote:Seems like we have a bug here. Any new note gets inserted to the last active section, regardless of my inbox setting. This is true for using the global hotkey, as well as inserting a new note from the notes list using the INS key.


Yes, I think this is a bug indeed. Using currently selected tab only makes sense when the main window has the focus - that is, when you use the Ins key. I'll fix it in 2.0.3.
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Button 'All'

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:02 pm

Alex,

i want to make clear, that when implementing the 'All' button as a section, the following behaviour should be possible:

  • Ctrl+Tab/Shift+Ctrl+Tab will include switching to 'All'
  • Ctrl+Tab/Shift+Ctrl+Tab will also allow to exit/move away from the 'All' button
  • Ctrl+Shift+Space will be a shortcut to jump/activate to 'All' respectively leave/deactivate it

For example i can activate 'All' using Ctrl+Shift+Space and thereafter leave it using Ctrl+Tab.

In other words, it behaves like a regular TAB. :)

Thomas
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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:12 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Actually I'm thinking to make it a tab, so it won't be a button anymore ;) But I don't agree about the width: probably many people would complain that it takes too much space. Also since it won't be a regular tab (almost none of the commands from the tab context menu will be applicable to it), the more it differs from regulars tabs, the better.

I really like an esthetic appeal. Maybe have an option in the settings-file to allow setting the width of the 'All' button/Tab? Btw. i decreased the max tab width to 120, because it looks more nice and is fine with my settings.

Thank you.

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Re: Sections - first impression

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:13 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:I really like an esthetic appeal. Maybe have an option in the settings-file to allow setting the width of the 'All' button/Tab? Btw. i decreased the max tab width to 120, because it looks more nice and is fine with my settings.


Well when we make it a regular tab, it will of course obey the same rules as all other tabs.
Alex

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