Features for Beta M10

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Features for Beta M10

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Mon May 18, 2009 10:09 am

Ok Beta M9 is on its way and will be released soon, meanwhile let's see which suggestions have the highest score and should be considered for Beta M10?

Feature score = (Implement asap)*2 + (Nice to have) - (Don't need personally) - (Don't do it)*2
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby Midas » Mon May 18, 2009 5:36 pm

Is this a new poll, Alex? There's the other one... Or are you just divulging the formula? :?

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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby Noddy330 » Mon May 18, 2009 8:51 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Ok Beta M9 is on its way and will be released soon, meanwhile let's see which suggestions have the highest score and should be considered for Beta M10?

Feature score = (Implement asap)*2 + (Nice to have) - (Don't need personally) - (Don't do it)*2


Surely the number of voters needs to be factored in.
Otherwise a 1 vote for (Implement ASAP)
Would beat n votes for (Implement ASAP) + n votes for (Don't do it)
And that seems wrong to me.
I offer the following to stimulate discussion, and I know it’s not ‘right’ - the ranking be your formula * number of voters
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby Midas » Mon May 18, 2009 9:34 pm

I propose a simpler formula:

(Choice1 * user votes * 2 + Choice2 * user votes) / (Choice3 * user votes + Choice2 * user votes * 2) = global priority

Serialize priorities & sort descending; implement those at the top... Easy peasy... :twisted:

Not directly related, but it just came my way...

I posted this a while ago in the "Feature Request" thread:
Midas wrote:[...]
- Finally, regex search would be a another killer (there are many free and open source function libaries for this effect, see here and here, for instance).
[...]

viewtopic.php?f=3&p=25

The suggestion has been further proposed and later accepted as feature #161 in the roadmap; the following site might come in handy for the development of this feature, because it also makes available VB and VC++ source for Regex, if I'm not mistaken...
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Tue May 19, 2009 5:16 am

Midas wrote:Is this a new poll, Alex? There's the other one... Or are you just divulging the formula? :?


No, it's not a new poll, we already have enough of these ;) I really wanted to discuss the formula and form together a list of top-voted features. Sorry I wasn't more clear on this ;)
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Tue May 19, 2009 5:22 am

Midas wrote:I propose a simpler formula:

(Choice1 * user votes * 2 + Choice2 * user votes) / (Choice3 * user votes + Choice2 * user votes * 2) = global priority

Serialize priorities & sort descending; implement those at the top... Easy peasy... :twisted:


The only problem that I see is that those feature requests that hang longer around get more votes. For example compare 2 requests: one that is around for a year and gets score of 35, and the other is around for a month and get a score of 33. It is clear that the users are more passionate about the second suggestion, yet it is the first one which gets implemented.
I think the suggestion age should be factored in somehow, definitely not linearly, maybe dividing by sqrt(days_active) will do...

Not directly related, but it just came my way...

I posted this a while ago in the "Feature Request" thread:
Midas wrote:[...]
- Finally, regex search would be a another killer (there are many free and open source function libaries for this effect, see here and here, for instance).
[...]

viewtopic.php?f=3&p=25

The suggestion has been further proposed and later accepted as feature #161 in the roadmap; the following site might come in handy for the development of this feature, because it also makes available VB and VC++ source for Regex, if I'm not mistaken...


Hmmm, is there a "[Suggestion]" topic related to this?
By the way there's no need for a regex library since CN already uses boost (http://www.boost.org) which has good support for regular expressions. But thanks anyway)
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby Midas » Tue May 19, 2009 3:17 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Midas wrote:I propose a simpler formula:

(Choice1 * user votes * 2 + Choice2 * user votes) / (Choice3 * user votes + Choice2 * user votes * 2) = global priority

Serialize priorities & sort descending; implement those at the top... Easy peasy...
The only problem that I see is that those feature requests that hang longer around get more votes. For example compare 2 requests: one that is around for a year and gets score of 35, and the other is around for a month and get a score of 33. It is clear that the users are more passionate about the second suggestion, yet it is the first one which gets implemented.

I think the suggestion age should be factored in somehow, definitely not linearly, maybe dividing by sqrt(days_active) will do...

I see what you mean. But IMHO if a suggestion would get more weighted as a result of the lenght of time it had been open to voting, than I reckon the time was nigh for it to get implemented, even if people felt more passionate about some later one.

But I must confess that the impact of your Sqrt weighting is not really clear in my head... Would the resulting formula be this one?

{ ( Choice1 * user_votes * 2 + Choice2 * user_votes ) / ( Choice3 * user_votes + Choice2 * user_votes * 2 ) } * sqrt ( days_active ) = global_priority

EDIT: Sigh! :oops: Just noticed that in case of no votes against (or no votes for) the formula produces inconsistent results (divide by zero, so the presence of any of the dividend expressions should be conditioned by 'expression_value !=0'); any solutions?

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Midas wrote:[...] the following site might come in handy for the development of this feature, because it also makes available VB and VC++ source for Regex, if I'm not mistaken...
Hmmm, is there a "[Suggestion]" topic related to this?

By the way there's no need for a regex library since CN already uses boost (http://www.boost.org) which has good support for regular expressions. But thanks anyway)

There's no [Suggestion] tagged thread, because it was discussed willy nilly before the forum rules got implemented. I can set one up if you wish. I didn't know you'd already solved the implementation path issue. Thanks for letting me know. Over and out. :)
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Fri May 29, 2009 5:38 am

I think we better stick with the simplest possible formula for the moment, and see what happens.
The formula being:
Priority = Choice1 * 2 + Choice2 - Choice3 - Choice4 * 2.

Features with positive priority and older than a week are put on the roadmap.

So using this formula, lets see what are the ranks of the features now:

1. Parse clipped HTML for links and save them in notes (#144) [52+6-2-6] = 50
2. Basic formatting support (#154) [42+4-3-2] = 41
3. Tag Filtering (#177) [32+2-0-4] = 30
4. Picture and screenshot clipping (#86) [46+13-5-24] = 30
5. Tab-based note categories (#89) [32+5-2-8] = 27
6. Improve Search Method (Ability to exclude tags from search) (#187) [20+12-1-8] = 23
7. Newest note on TOP instead of bottom (#101) [16+6-0-2] = 20
8. Ability to access main window while note is open[#166] [16+5-2-0] = 19
9. Auto-scroll long notes when searching (#184) [18+4-1-2] = 19
10. Advanced backup (hourly, daily backups) (#186) [14+4-0-0] = 18
11. Selective importing [8+3-1-0] = 10
12. Display selected notes only at StartUp [10+2-2-0] = 10
13. Auto Open the new clip when clipping with hot keys [2+3-1-0] = 4
14. Encryption (#141) [2+1-2-0] = 1
15. Add docking feature (#178) [8+1-5-4] = 0
16. Change font/size for date (#179) [2+2-5-0] = -1
17. Emailing notes [0+0-1-0] = -1
18. Give me some skin. #152 [2+1-0-4] = -1
19. Changing note appearance with mousewheel [2+3-1-6] = -2
20. Remove modifier requirement for hot keys [4+1-1-8] = -4
21. Drop basket(#171) [6+5-8-28] = -25
22. Option to CLOSE cinta when pressing ESC (not only MINIMIZE) [6+2-8-28] = -28

Ok the two questions now remain:
1) What to do with those features from the original poll, those which got a lot of votes but are not listed here? Features like multiple-notebook support, advanced regex search etc. I'm surprised that nobody cared enough for them to create a "suggestion" topic with a poll.
2) How do we incorporate my view on estimated effort into the score?
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby Midas » Fri May 29, 2009 10:01 am

Dear Alex, I don't want to be nitpicking here, but the order you presented left me feeling rather uncomfortable; you see, in your list higher priority is given to features with smaller total number of votes (meaning lesser overall impact in CN user community), which is a bias with devastating effects in terms of participation (accountability being a mainstay of democracy).

So, I decided to look further into this; I summed the wheighted pro vote (asap*2+nice) and divided by the poll sommatory (total number of people voting on the issue); then, I did the same with the contrary vote (no need+don't do it*2). This way a much more precise idea of the relative weight for the community of the issue at stake is achieved, because both the pro and contrary vote are weighted against the global poll turnout.

By subtracting the resulting nay index (-) from the yeah index (+), and sorting accordingly, I got a very different priority scale (notice the list numbers are still the same):

FEATURES
10. Advanced backup (hourly, daily backups) (#186)
3. Tag Filtering (#177)
2. Basic formatting support (#154)
1. Parse clipped HTML for links and save them in notes (#144)
7. Newest note on TOP instead of bottom (#101)
9. Auto-scroll long notes when searching (#184)
8. Ability to access main window while note is open (#166)
11. Selective importing
12. Display selected notes only at StartUp
5. Tab-based note categories (#89)
6. Improve Search Method (Ability to exclude tags from search) (#187)
13. Auto Open the new clip when clipping with hot keys
4. Picture and screenshot clipping (#86)
14. Encryption (#141)
15. Add docking feature (#178)
16. Change font/size for date (#179)
18. Give me some skin. #152
19. Changing note appearance with mousewheel
20. Remove modifier requirement for hot keys
21. Drop basket (#171)
17. Emailing notes
22. Option to CLOSE cinta when pressing ESC (not only MINIMIZE)
INDEX
1,64
1,50
1,41
1,35
1,33
1,27
1,27
1,25
1,11
1,00
0,85
0,80
0,57
0,25
0,00
-0,13
-0,25
-0,25
-0,50
-0,83
-1,00
-1,04
[As Excel files aren't allowed here, I uploaded my figures to Rapidshare and MassMirror]

Now, in the first place, we get a feature that is sure to have a broader reach (data backup); the next places are occupied by the prior top priorities, but in exact reverse order :!:, and the previously fourth placed item gets demoted to the middle of the list... :o

I might also add that to me, such results feel rather more reasonable. I also think that at the moment only features with a positive index should be considered -- even if some of the excluded are suggestions I made or voted favorably.
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby Midas » Fri May 29, 2009 10:22 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:[...]

Ok the two questions now remain:
1) What to do with those features from the original poll, those which got a lot of votes but are not listed here? Features like multiple-notebook support, advanced regex search etc. I'm surprised that nobody cared enough for them to create a "suggestion" topic with a poll.
2) How do we incorporate my view on estimated effort into the score?

IMHO and since they were posted before the new methodology was set up, they should be considered separately and prioritised accordingly.

About 2), by effort you mean how difficult it is to implement? Maybe we could setup some modifier for you to assign to suggestions -- like easy = 1, normal = 0, difficult = -1 -- which would then be calculated into the results...
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:04 am

Midas, thanks a lot for doing such a thorough job!
I totally agree that your ranking feels more natural and suggest that we accept your formula.
As for the effort, I think making this explicit would be too much bureaucracy.
Let's just settle that for the next release I select the features from say top 5 or top 10 of the list.
And we should start to differentiate between commercial and free features.

For Beta M10 I pick:
Advanced backup
Tag filtering (simple variation: no mixed ANDs and ORs)
Newest note on top instead of bottom.

That would be all 'cause I need now to refactor/clean up the code ;)
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:12 am

Midas wrote:IMHO and since they were posted before the new methodology was set up, they should be considered separately and prioritised accordingly.

Okay, but how to prioritize them, that is the question.

By the way, I think we really need to setup a subforum for the [suggestion] topics. Now it's difficult to see the big picture.
And maintaining that shiny roadmap turned out to be way too messy, so I'd better try to use this subforum as a roadmap directly.
What do you think?
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby Midas » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:37 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:[...]

As for the effort, I think making this explicit would be too much bureaucracy.
Let's just settle that for the next release I select the features from say top 5 or top 10 of the list.

You're calling the shots here, I'm just trying to format things... :)

CintaNotes Developer wrote:And we should start to differentiate between commercial and free features.

For Beta M10 I pick:
Advanced backup
Tag filtering (simple variation: no mixed ANDs and ORs)
Newest note on top instead of bottom.

That would be all 'cause I need now to refactor/clean up the code ;)

Those will be great improvements, I'm sure everybody will agree, and I'm really sorry I can't help more with the coding chores...

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Midas wrote:IMHO and since they were posted before the new methodology was set up, they should be considered separately and prioritised accordingly.

Okay, but how to prioritize them, that is the question.

Allow me to ponder this a little while longer, Ok? :?

CintaNotes Developer wrote:By the way, I think we really need to setup a subforum for the [suggestion] topics. Now it's difficult to see the big picture.
And maintaining that shiny roadmap turned out to be way too messy, so I'd better try to use this subforum as a roadmap directly.
What do you think?

I totally agree :!: I find the best way to tackle any problem is to divide it into lesser ones, and then solve one after another. By having a suggestions forum, anything else can be moved out, allowing you to manage them the way that suits you best...

... And maybe this messages should be moved to the mods forum, don't you think?
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby kranor » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:58 pm

Yup I think it is time to breakdown the forum a bit more as well. I think a support forum, suggestion forum, general discussion and a links and resources forum, the last one could be the breeding ground for tips to be moved into our tips thread. Also when the commercial version comes out a similar structure should be setup to keep commercial and free separate.
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby Midas » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:59 pm

Midas wrote:
FEATURES
10. Advanced backup (hourly, daily backups) (#186)
3. Tag Filtering (#177)
2. Basic formatting support (#154)
1. Parse clipped HTML for links and save them in notes (#144)
7. Newest note on TOP instead of bottom (#101)
9. Auto-scroll long notes when searching (#184)
8. Ability to access main window while note is open (#166)
11. Selective importing
12. Display selected notes only at StartUp
5. Tab-based note categories (#89)
6. Improve Search Method (Ability to exclude tags from search) (#187)
13. Auto Open the new clip when clipping with hot keys
4. Picture and screenshot clipping (#86)
14. Encryption (#141)
15. Add docking feature (#178)
16. Change font/size for date (#179)
18. Give me some skin. #152
19. Changing note appearance with mousewheel
20. Remove modifier requirement for hot keys
21. Drop basket (#171)
17. Emailing notes
22. Option to CLOSE cinta when pressing ESC (not only MINIMIZE)
INDEX
1,64
1,50
1,41
1,35
1,33
1,27
1,27
1,25
1,11
1,00
0,85
0,80
0,57
0,25
0,00
-0,13
-0,25
-0,25
-0,50
-0,83
-1,00
-1,04
VERSION
F
F
C
C
F
F
F
F
C
C
F
F
C
C
??
??
??
??
??
??
??
??

Let me see if I got this right from our prior conversations ('F' meaning the free version and 'C' the commercial one)...
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby kranor » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:35 pm

Might I suggest that the chart that Midas has knocked up be maintained and posted in the roadmap thread. It is a nice clear readout for forum members on what the current poll placings are for each suggestion. :D
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby Midas » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:31 pm

Thanks, Kranor -- I have no objection.

Plus and like you said, a new suggestions forum should be created (but Alex has to do it, because I don't know how... "there ain't no rest for the wicked"). But as for the other new forums, I think it might be too early for that.

I also move for this thread to be displaced to the mods forum.
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby toddclausen » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:13 pm

Midas wrote:Thanks, Kranor -- I have no objection.

Plus and like you said, a new suggestions forum should be created (but Alex has to do it, because I don't know how... "there ain't no rest for the wicked"). But as for the other new forums, I think it might be too early for that.

I also move for this thread to be displaced to the mods forum.


I also think it may be about time to split the forums (assuming we can keep up the current level of activity) but like Midas also feel we can only support a General and Suggestions Forum at this time.

Alex will need to create this, as Mods we don't have the power to create a new forum...
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:31 pm

toddclausen wrote:
Midas wrote:Thanks, Kranor -- I have no objection.

Plus and like you said, a new suggestions forum should be created (but Alex has to do it, because I don't know how... "there ain't no rest for the wicked"). But as for the other new forums, I think it might be too early for that.

I also move for this thread to be displaced to the mods forum.


I also think it may be about time to split the forums (assuming we can keep up the current level of activity) but like Midas also feel we can only support a General and Suggestions Forum at this time.

Alex will need to create this, as Mods we don't have the power to create a new forum...


Off we go ;) I guess there's no need for the [Suggestion] tag anymore, I suggest we use the Roadmap sections as tags instead ("startup", "taking/clipping", "viewing" etc.)
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Re: Features for Beta M10

Postby doublewitt » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:27 am

Is Beta M10 to be released soon?
Any news...?
Can't help but ask...
I'm "tagged" to CintaNotes... :!:
All I can say is: TAG IT!

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