[Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:47 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:Yes, that is the problem. I've send a screenshot to you via private mail. Usually this happens when i search for a word, press Ctrl+F, search for another word, press Ctrl+F and so on.

Ok, I'll investigate it, thanks.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:48 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:I have plans to re-organize my notes to different databases. Looking forward to this, too. :)

My main concern about notebook tabs is that people will start asking to multi-select them in order to search multiple notebooks at once. Noooo!! :) Back to square 1 :)
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:55 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:I have plans to re-organize my notes to different databases. Looking forward to this, too. :)
My main concern about notebook tabs is that people will start asking to multi-select them in order to search multiple notebooks at once. Noooo!! :) Back to square 1 :)

This is no concern. It will become reality for sure. ;) Myself i have already thought about this. But i think it is reasonable to make a clear statement, that this will not happen. Notebook tabs are a simple way to access different databases, instead of using the file menu. Nothing more. Point.

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:59 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:No. My example is misleading. Better try: when "javascript generators ec6" changes to "javascript generators harmony". It is still three words, but the last one changed. Of course this implies, that a change in word numbers also will give a separate history item. For example when "javascript generators harmony" changes to "generators harmony".
What is a "changed" word? Is "generators harm" different from "generators harmony"?

Good example. As said, there is no easy solution to this. Together with the proposed changes, on what will trigger adding an item to the history, this can work out alright. So yes, your example should probably trigger the creation of an history item. After all it will avoid simple typo problems, such as creating items "generators harmny", "generators harmony".

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby usbpoweredfridge » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:10 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:This is no concern. It will become reality for sure. ;) Myself i have already thought about this. But i think it is reasonable to make a clear statement, that this will not happen. Notebook tabs are a simple way to access different databases, instead of using the file menu. Nothing more. Point.


I totally agree with Thomas here - users will most certainly ask, and the simple answer should be 'no'. You can't select multiple notebooks now, there will be no reason to allow this with notebook tabs. They are a simple way to more quickly and efficiently select another notebook - nothing more, nothing less.

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby usbpoweredfridge » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:13 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Wow, that's some outstanding work you've done here. Thanks to it I was able to easily reproduce and fix the issue!
Here's the fixed version, please try it out:


Yes, confirm fixed :) Many thanks!

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:43 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:This is no concern. It will become reality for sure. ;) Myself i have already thought about this. But i think it is reasonable to make a clear statement, that this will not happen. Notebook tabs are a simple way to access different databases, instead of using the file menu. Nothing more. Point.

That's reassuring, thanks Thomas ;)
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:44 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:Good example. As said, there is no easy solution to this. Together with the proposed changes, on what will trigger adding an item to the history, this can work out alright. So yes, your example should probably trigger the creation of an history item. After all it will avoid simple typo problems, such as creating items "generators harmny", "generators harmony".


I suggest to move the discussion regarding to "when should a state be recorded to history" to a separate topic, since it's getting difficult to follow the current one.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:49 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Thomas Lohrum wrote:Good example. As said, there is no easy solution to this. Together with the proposed changes, on what will trigger adding an item to the history, this can work out alright. So yes, your example should probably trigger the creation of an history item. After all it will avoid simple typo problems, such as creating items "generators harmny", "generators harmony".
I suggest to move the discussion regarding to "when should a state be recorded to history" to a separate topic, since it's getting difficult to follow the current one.

We can summarize the state of the current discussion and create a feature request for it. This should happen after releasing 2.8 final.

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:51 am

usbpoweredfridge wrote:I totally agree with Thomas here - users will most certainly ask, and the simple answer should be 'no'. You can't select multiple notebooks now, there will be no reason to allow this with notebook tabs. They are a simple way to more quickly and efficiently select another notebook - nothing more, nothing less.

I agree wholeheartedly. But the problem is that the tabs will look very similar, and it will be difficult to explain why notebook tabs can't be multi-selected whereas section tabs can.

I guess we should consider tweaking the look of section tabs a bit. Also the "All" button can be returned.
Something like this:
sshot-1.png
sshot-1.png (39.07 KiB) Viewed 5185 times
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:53 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:We can summarize the state of the current discussion and create a feature request for it. This should happen after releasing 2.8 final.

Agreed.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby usbpoweredfridge » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:03 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:I guess we should consider tweaking the look of section tabs a bit. Also the "All" button can be returned.
Something like this:
sshot-1.png


I like :) So 'All' in that case would be a sort of virtual view, showing all the notes from the three sections in the one list? The only real comment I have on the look of the buttons would be a request to not make the currently selected button too subtle - I think in that screenshot the Main button may be selected, but I am not sure as it is a very subtle effect. Sometimes, developers use colour/shading alone to highlight a currently selected item (eg Windows 7, with taskbar buttons), and my eyes have trouble picking out the currently selected item when colour or shading alone is used (as they do with the Windows 7 taskbar buttons) - which is why I much prefer colour/shading + a depressed look (like taskbar button for the Windows classic theme in Windows XP or Windows 2000).

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:12 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:I guess we should consider tweaking the look of section tabs a bit. Also the "All" button can be returned. Something like this:

First impression is "this looks nice". Still, i won't say "let's do it" ;) Right now i like the section tabs styling, because they are similar to Windows UI tabs. On the other hand, Windows tabs can not be "multi" selected. In general the question is, if this is the new look of section tabs, what will be the look of notebook tabs? Most important should be the fact, that only one notebook tab can be active at any time (which suggests to make them look as regular tabs), while the style of section tabs should be similar to Windows controls that allow for multiple selections. For example in your new layout the sections look more like buttons, which might make sense. One problem i see is the assignment of shortcuts. Currently we use Ctrl+tab to switch sections, which comes handy, but if section tabs will be styled as buttons, this no longer makes sense. I am not trying to present a final solution at this time. Just stating some considerations.

Thomas

[EDIT:]In your layout i don't see the icon for the inbox.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:16 am

usbpoweredfridge wrote:I like :) So 'All' in that case would be a sort of virtual view, showing all the notes from the three sections in the one list?

Chris,

it's already there. You can make the all button visible by enabling it in the settings file; check "sectionbar.allsectionsbutton.displayed = 1".

Thomas

[EDIT:]The 'all' button was always there, ever since introducing sections in version 2.0. Alex decided to hide it at some point per default for new databases. I did not miss it and actually like the reduced clutter.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby Noddy330 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:10 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:
Noddy330 wrote:downloading new notes 1 of 1722 ...
moving local notes to recycle bin 1 of 79

and now all seems ok


Hi Noddy,
well, good, I guess. Although it seems that some kind of problem was still there.. Do you by any chance still have that logs? Could you please send them over? Or at least, the failing notes? Thanks in advance!


Sorry, I don't have logs and too much personal info in the failing note.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:29 am

usbpoweredfridge wrote:I like :) So 'All' in that case would be a sort of virtual view, showing all the notes from the three sections in the one list? The only real comment I have on the look of the buttons would be a request to not make the currently selected button too subtle - I think in that screenshot the Main button may be selected, but I am not sure as it is a very subtle effect. Sometimes, developers use colour/shading alone to highlight a currently selected item (eg Windows 7, with taskbar buttons), and my eyes have trouble picking out the currently selected item when colour or shading alone is used (as they do with the Windows 7 taskbar buttons) - which is why I much prefer colour/shading + a depressed look (like taskbar button for the Windows classic theme in Windows XP or Windows 2000).


Thanks for your comments, Chris, of course I'll take extra care that selected sections are visually prominent.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:33 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:First impression is "this looks nice". Still, i won't say "let's do it" ;) Right now i like the section tabs styling, because they are similar to Windows UI tabs. On the other hand, Windows tabs can not be "multi" selected. In general the question is, if this is the new look of section tabs, what will be the look of notebook tabs? Most important should be the fact, that only one notebook tab can be active at any time (which suggests to make them look as regular tabs), while the style of section tabs should be similar to Windows controls that allow for multiple selections. For example in your new layout the sections look more like buttons, which might make sense. One problem i see is the assignment of shortcuts. Currently we use Ctrl+tab to switch sections, which comes handy, but if section tabs will be styled as buttons, this no longer makes sense. I am not trying to present a final solution at this time. Just stating some considerations.


Great considerations. Indeed, we'll have to think of way to tie all this into a nice whole package. Probably some ctrl+left-right arrow combinations could be used for sections (even now they are available via the sectionbar.keys.ctrlleftright.enabled setting). (Shift+)Ctrl+Tab could then be used for notebooks.

[EDIT:]In your layout i don't see the icon for the inbox.

It's just a draft, it will be easy to add it.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:35 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:[EDIT:]The 'all' button was always there, ever since introducing sections in version 2.0. Alex decided to hide it at some point per default for new databases. I did not miss it and actually like the reduced clutter.


Probably in 3.0 we could get rid of it for good?
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:36 am

Noddy330 wrote:Sorry, I don't have logs and too much personal info in the failing note.

No problem, we'll just have to hope for the best ;) Or wait for new reports.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.8 Beta 3

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:57 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Great considerations. Indeed, we'll have to think of way to tie all this into a nice whole package. Probably some ctrl+left-right arrow combinations could be used for sections (even now they are available via the sectionbar.keys.ctrlleftright.enabled setting). (Shift+)Ctrl+Tab could then be used for notebooks.


As a first summary/proposal:

  • make notebooks look and behave like Windows UI tabs, which includes Ctrl+Tab/Shift+Tab for navigation
  • make sections look like buttons, which can be navigated using Ctrl+Left/Right
  • section buttons are displayed as part of each Notebook tab
  • notebook tabs may be closed and rearranged similar to a browser tab (?)

As for the section buttons:

  • Use the color box as a checkbox to indicate selected (active) sections! This will make it clear right out of the box, that these can be selected/checked and that multiple controls can be checked the same time.
  • Use the 'All' button as a standard of saying "Select All/Unselect All"

Thomas

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