how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

alf329
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how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby alf329 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:00 pm

hi

I'm looking for a bit of detail as to how the two options for keeping things in sync actually work, including any pros and cons.

I have a windows 7 laptop with a CN database with one section and about 5000 notes currently and I'd like to set up CN on another windows 8.1 laptop and be able to keep them in sync with new records, deletes and updates handled from both computers and some kind of error or status log when stuff happens. There's only me using it but I could be on both computers at the same time, so the method needs to keep two open files in sync.

Obviously simplenote needs a pro license whereas dropbox doesn't, but I'm looking for the method that works best for me so that means idiot proof versus rocket science.

My caution and desire to understand goes back many years to the psion organiser and it's sync mechanism with an email system. It was a dog's breakfast but each side thought it was doing the right thing - the result was duplicates all over the place, missing records, partial updates, and a lot of manual reconciliation. It was unusable for me.

I don't know what CN does under the covers to interact with simplenote or dropbox or how complete the current implementations are but that's what I'm trying to find out.

Can anyone help?
Thomas Lohrum
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:05 pm

Hi Alf,

i am not using any sync method myself. However, synching with Dropbox will upload/download an entire file, that is all notes in one piece. Simplenote on the other hand will update, insert and delete notes by recognizing changes and handling them one by one.

Thomas
alf329
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby alf329 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:09 pm

Hi Thomas

So for dropbox, one hypothesis is that it looks as if cintanotes is not aware that the database is held on dropbox. So if I have two computers running cintanotes, each updating the same file on dropbox, then as long as I am only updating, inserting, or deleting on one computer at a time, and cintanotes is accessing the data in a coherent client server way, then everything should work out.

As an example, cintanotes on each computer is showing the database open with 5000 records. I delete the latest note on computer A and it now shows 4999 records. What happens to computer B? Does cintanotes refresh the view every n minutes and show 4999 notes after, say 5 minutes or does it show 5000 notes until I do something that causes a refresh e.g. search for something then back to all.

Time to experiment!

Thanks
Thomas Lohrum
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:53 pm

Hi Alf,

the dropbox sync will run automatically once setup. Please check the manual for advice on setting up either Simplenote or Dropbox Sync.

http://cintanotes.com/help/#sync

For any questions you are welcome to come back here.

Thomas
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby Noddy330 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:22 pm

alf329
Believe SimpleNote have suspended premium for now.
http://help.simplenote.com/customer/por ... come-back-
Nod
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby Noddy330 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:35 pm

alf329
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby alf329 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:26 am

hi noddy

Thanks for the info on simplenote premium. I've looked at the links and googled but I'm non the wiser about what it means. I did find a reference to cintanotes migrating SimpleNote sync to the new Simperium API, but I don't know if that is completed or what if any are the limitations of the current cintanotes simplenote integration.

If you can explain it a bit further, or give any more details on any of this, that would be great.

hi all

Does everyone know how this all works but thinks it's so simple that everyone else must understand already?

Or am I the the only one who's trying to find out?
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby Noddy330 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:35 am

alf329
Have you looked at CN Help / Synchronizing Notes?
Nod
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby Noddy330 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:41 am

sorry I've got my PROs confused
You need CN PRO to do Simplenote synchronization
See http://cintanotes.com/pricing/
Nod
alf329
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby alf329 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:41 pm

http://cintanotes.com/help/#sync ??

I've looked at this. For the time being I only want to sync a cn database between two windows pcs so I don't want to access via android or via simplenote itself.

I've just tried dropbox sync and with the same dropbox'd cn database open on two different windows pcs I added a couple of notes onto each, then left it all overnight, but there's no sign of replication. I haven't shut cn down on either one, but I was expecting sync to have taken place given that there's plenty of time for locks etc to expire.

I was using cn portable on windows 7 and cn installed on windows 8.1

Actually thinking about dropbox I wonder how it is ever going to work. If I change the database in two separate places and each dropbox then tries to replicate itself with the other one after several minutes or whatever...

So, moving on to simplenote with a trial pro sub... I'll try something similar to nod with a list of 10 things I'll do after initial sync is complete, from one side only to start with, to include add note, amend note, delete note and similar for tags.
Thomas Lohrum
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:50 pm

alf329 wrote:I've just tried dropbox sync and with the same dropbox'd cn database open on two different windows pcs I added a couple of notes onto each, then left it all overnight, but there's no sign of replication. I haven't shut cn down on either one, but I was expecting sync to have taken place given that there's plenty of time for locks etc to expire.

Hi Alf,

Dropbox will always sync the entire file - not individual notes. As such you can edit notes on one PC only. Wait for sync to happen, after that you should be able to access the notes on any other PC. Always edit notes on one client only. Before working on a different client, wait until sync has finished.

Thomas
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:22 am

Hi everyone,

Thomas, Noddy - thanks for helping out!

Alf,
CintaNotes has built-in timer that unlocks the file after 30sec idle. After that Dropbox can sync the file.
Also CintaNotes can detect that the file has been changed underneath it, and refresh it automatically.

It seems that this wasn't working for you, and I'd like to know why exactly.

1) Are you sure that you opened the same file (relative to Dropbox folder) on both PCs?
2) Please find and open "cintanotes.settings" file (either near cintanotes.exe or in %appdata%/cintanotes),
it should contain the following lines:
notebook.disconnect.enabled = 1
notebook.disconnect.timeout.seconds = 30
Alex
alf329
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby alf329 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:09 am

hi

It is the same dropbox file.

The settings are as you describe on both systems.

Note that I have not changed anything directly in settings.
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ChrisCN
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby ChrisCN » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:22 am

Hi

I use dropbox to sync cintanotes successfully for "ages" ;-)
BUT I would not recommand to use this method in a situation
where you are using the same db file on different machines at the same time.

Actually I invested quite some time to find a way to avoid this situation!
The problem I found is that there will be times when dropbox wants to write the new file
and CN is locking it (typically on startup of one of the machines)
-> dropbox will then create a copy of the file containing the phrase 'conflict' in the name.

This has caused loss of data in the past because I didn't notice it
and dropbox does NOT inform you about the conflict).

My conclusion:
I don't think the dropbox sync is a suitable solution in a situation
where you want to use the same DB at the same time on different machines.

But I would be happy to hear what would be necessary to get such a scenario to work ;)
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:26 am

Hi alf,

thanks for the answers!
Ok then we'll probably need to do some more diagnostics..
The key here is to find out where is the problem - in uploading the file or in downloading it.
In this case Dropbox should report the file to be locked - the question is, on which PC.

Also, I now re-read your phrase: "I added a couple of notes onto each, then left it all
overnight, but there's no sign of replication".

This is exactly the case when Dropbox sync falls short - you can't change both ends at once,
you should leave 5-10 minutes for sync after each change. I suspect that Dropbox has created
a "conflicted" copy of the file near the original one, please check this.
Alex
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Re: how cintanotes works with simplenote and dropbox

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:29 am

ChrisCN wrote:My conclusion:
I don't think the dropbox sync is a suitable solution in a situation
where you want to use the same DB at the same time on different machines.


Thanks for your comment, Chris! I 100% agree here. File-based sync in CN (and actually
you can use any file-syncing service, not only Dropbox) has its limitations.

But there also are some advantages: File-based synchronization will sync the manual order of the notes and
properties of tags and sections. Simplenote sync doesn't transfer this information.
Alex

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