[Ann] CintaNotes 2.9 Beta 1!

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.9 Beta 1!

Postby Noddy330 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:47 pm

Working well for me.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.9 Beta 1!

Postby usbpoweredfridge » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:45 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:- Ability to re-ask password after a timeout


I'm having trouble getting this part to work - is it based on a PC timeout, or a CN specific timeout? If PC specific, that would probably explain why CN does not seem to be auto-locking after 5 minutes of not using it.

Chris

Edit: Ok, even after 5 minutes of not using my PC, CN is still unlocked. I guess I am just not understanding exactly what this timeout option is meant to do. I was hoping it would be exactly like KeePass - set a timeout, and if you don't use the program for that amount of time, it locks (re-encrypts) the DB, meaning you have to re-enter your password if you want to open it back up. The timeout applies regardless of whether the program is minimised or non-minimised.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.9 Beta 1!

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:17 am

usbpoweredfridge wrote:I'm having trouble getting this part to work - is it based on a PC timeout, or a CN specific timeout? If PC specific, that would probably explain why CN does not seem to be auto-locking after 5 minutes of not using it.


Currently the timeout specifies how much time CN must be minimized to tray in order to lock access.
Otherwise it would be necessary to somehow hide notes that are currently already visible in the list.
Probably the wording should be updated, or an option added to auto-minimize CN to tray and lock after this timeout.
However I don't know what to do in case "Minimize to tray" option is not set.

Edit: Ok, even after 5 minutes of not using my PC, CN is still unlocked. I guess I am just not understanding exactly what this timeout option is meant to do. I was hoping it would be exactly like KeePass - set a timeout, and if you don't use the program for that amount of time, it locks (re-encrypts) the DB, meaning you have to re-enter your password if you want to open it back up. The timeout applies regardless of whether the program is minimised or non-minimised.


Does KeePass auto-minimize itself to tray after the timeout?
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.9 Beta 1!

Postby usbpoweredfridge » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:44 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Currently the timeout specifies how much time CN must be minimized to tray in order to lock access.
Otherwise it would be necessary to somehow hide notes that are currently already visible in the list.
Probably the wording should be updated, or an option added to auto-minimize CN to tray and lock after this timeout.
However I don't know what to do in case "Minimize to tray" option is not set.


Right, yes. From the wording, I had a very different idea as to how the option would work. At the very least, the documentation needs to be updated to make it clear how it works (eg it doesn't work while CN is actually open). The other thing about that - assuming you manually minimise the CN window itself, I would expect that CN would lock its database as soon as you minimise it to the tray. At the moment, from what you said, it appears that the DB will still be unlocked (decrypted) for the minimum of 5 minutes after you minimise it (as 5 minutes is the minimum time you can set in the password dialog) - a '0 minutes' option would be very much appreciated here. Personally, if I minimise CN, I am essentially saying "I do not want anyone else to be able to see this DB unless I enter my password - and that includes myself".

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Does KeePass auto-minimize itself to tray after the timeout?


It can - but if you have that disabled, it simply locks while in the taskbar. So, assume you have the timeout option enabled in KeePass and have it set to say 5 minutes. You open KeePass and unlock the DB, and then switch away from it (leave it open in the taskbar, but it is not the active window - the DB is open and unlocked however). When you click on it 6 minutes later, the program and DB will be locked again, requiring you to re-enter your password (the taskbar icon text changes from 'database name' to 'database name [Locked]' when it actually locks). You can also set KeePass to lock when you minimise the window (window can be set to minimise to taskbar only, or system tray), lock when you lock your computer etc - it is very flexible in that way.

I would say for the moment, keep it simple. Update the documentation to say exactly how the password options work, and don't worry about minimising CN once the timeout period is up (ie the 'minimise to tray' option is irrelevant) - just lock the DB in place once the timeout has occurred.

Chris

Edit: I know that last bit isn't as easy as it sounds. For example, while a program is open in the taskbar (as opposed to minimised to the tray), you can mouse over the taskbar button to get a preview of the window contents (KeePass has to do something special to deal with that issue I believe - I don't think you can prevent the thumbnail from appearing, but I think you may be able to trick it into displaying the wrong contents). You can also just simply click the icon itself to see the program (again, KeePass has to do something to deal with this, it blanks out the contents of the program window effectively). But by 'simple', I meant 'do not try and second guess the user as to whether they have set CN to minimise to the tray or not - take that out of the equation'.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.9 Beta 1!

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:45 am

usbpoweredfridge wrote:Right, yes. From the wording, I had a very different idea as to how the option would work. At the very least, the documentation needs to be updated to make it clear how it works (eg it doesn't work while CN is actually open). The other thing about that - assuming you manually minimise the CN window itself, I would expect that CN would lock its database as soon as you minimise it to the tray. At the moment, from what you said, it appears that the DB will still be unlocked (decrypted) for the minimum of 5 minutes after you minimise it (as 5 minutes is the minimum time you can set in the password dialog) - a '0 minutes' option would be very much appreciated here. Personally, if I minimise CN, I am essentially saying "I do not want anyone else to be able to see this DB unless I enter my password - and that includes myself".


Well, there's no documentation yet ;) The wording of the label will be updated. But I wonder if an auto-minimize-and-lock feature would be more convenient?
It definitely would be more convenient to me..)

I would say for the moment, keep it simple. Update the documentation to say exactly how the password options work, and don't worry about minimising CN once the timeout period is up (ie the 'minimise to tray' option is irrelevant) - just lock the DB in place once the timeout has occurred.


You're right, that's not that easy. E.g. what to do with opened editor windows? The obvious choice here is to prevent auto-locking in case any editor window is open.
All in all, I think auto-minimizing and locking is actually the better option, and also the easiest to implement.

Also, some beta testers were concerned that the background operations like backup and sync weren't running directly after startup until the password was entered for the first time. This was counter-intuitive for them.
I guess we'll need to give the users an option to enable background operations on an encrypted DB, even with the cost of reduced security (the password will have to be stored somewhere to decrypt the DB for the background operation). Also it will enable clipping new notes in silent mode without entering the password - huge usability win.
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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.9 Beta 1!

Postby Thomas Lohrum » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:26 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:All in all, I think auto-minimizing and locking is actually the better option, and also the easiest to implement.

I agree. Seems like a solution which guarantees the database is safe in regards of not being able to be used by other users.

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Also, some beta testers were concerned that the background operations like backup and sync weren't running directly after startup until the password was entered for the first time. This was counter-intuitive for them. I guess we'll need to give the users an option to enable background operations on an encrypted DB, even with the cost of reduced security (the password will have to be stored somewhere to decrypt the DB for the background operation). Also it will enable clipping new notes in silent mode without entering the password - huge usability win.

I think the user should decide whether he wants the password to be stored or not. Extended functionality will be available in regards to the password storage. Personally i don't want the password stored since this can be a high security issue. Also a user might use different database, some of them encrypted and some not. So the action depends on the active database anyway.

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Re: [Ann] CintaNotes 2.9 Beta 1!

Postby usbpoweredfridge » Fri May 01, 2015 3:30 am

Thomas Lohrum wrote:
CintaNotes Developer wrote:All in all, I think auto-minimizing and locking is actually the better option, and also the easiest to implement.

I agree. Seems like a solution which guarantees the database is safe in regards of not being able to be used by other users.


I agree with you both.

Chris

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