[Ann] CintaNotes 2.5 Beta 1

[CintaNotes Developer]

Hi Gunars,

Strip the revision markup from the license.rtf included with the beta (the one on the website is ok).

That's a blunder! Thanks for telling me, will fix it in the 2.5 final.

I'd prefer the Tags and Link fields to be on separate lines as before even though it takes up a bit more room. I like to see as much of a link as possible.

I'm afraid that's the case when there's no middle ground and many people would argue that this indeed takes too much room.
There's a tooltip that displays the full link as soon as you hover the mouse over it. Also in the final version, the link field will expand automatically when you start editing the link.
I'll try to think of something here, but that's as much as I can promise.

Add ctrl-O shortcut to open databases. In general, as much flexibility as possible in assigning shortcuts and hotkeys is always welcome.

You're right, the shortcuts for important File menu operations are missing. Unfortunately Ctrl+N is taken for "New Note", and there certainly exist people who are already used to it. So I suggest: New-> Ctrl+Alt+N, Open -> Ctrl+Alt+O, Save ->Ctrl+Alt+S, Close->Ctrl+Alt+W. Since it's really easy to do, will include this in 2.5.

Add the 'All' message count to the section name in the tabs (e.g. "Clips (12)"). This would give a quick overview of how many items are in each section without having to visit each one.

Good idea! Added to the roadmap here: http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/337 ... tion-tabs/
Will be implemented as soon as it gets 10 votes.

Make the confirmation box on a note delete optional (check box?). Since the note is going to the recycle bin, there's little risk.

Yes, this has been in my todo list for a long time: http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/472 ... -messages/
I'll try to include this in 2.5, however more realistically it will be in 2.6.

I know a more flexible color scheme is in the works. For now, is it possible to tweak the difference between a selected and unselected note? I have a hard time distinguishing them, especially when selecting multiple items.

Will do, thanks.

Despite these suggestions, I very much like the simple, focused and well thought out interface of CN.

Thanks a lot for your excellent suggestions, and I'm really glad that you enjoy using CN!

[gunars]

I'd prefer the Tags and Link fields to be on separate lines as before even though it takes up a bit more room. I like to see as much of a link as possible.

I'm afraid that's the case when there's no middle ground and many people would argue that this indeed takes too much room.
There's a tooltip that displays the full link as soon as you hover the mouse over it. Also in the final version, the link field will expand automatically when you start editing the link.
I'll try to think of something here, but that's as much as I can promise.

I know this is very much a personal preference issue. Actually, between the tooltip and expanding field you mentioned, I think it's just fine on one line.

Add ctrl-O shortcut to open databases. In general, as much flexibility as possible in assigning shortcuts and hotkeys is always welcome.

You're right, the shortcuts for important File menu operations are missing. Unfortunately Ctrl+N is taken for "New Note", and there certainly exist people who are already used to it. So I suggest: New-> Ctrl+Alt+N, Open -> Ctrl+Alt+O, Save ->Ctrl+Alt+S, Close->Ctrl+Alt+W. Since it's really easy to do, will include this in 2.5.

I'm also used to using Ctrl-N for a new note and would hate to lose that. I'm not too concerned with File->New and File->SaveAs shortcuts since those are not used very often. The File->Open however is used more frequently with multiple notebooks.

My preference: just add Ctrl-O for File->Open and don't worry about the others.

I would very strongly advise not to use any Ctrl+Alt+<letter> combination. There are quite a few non-English keyboard drivers for Windows that use the RightAlt key (previously called AltGr for alternate graphic, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key) to enter accented characters. For example, in the Latvian QWERTY driver, RightAlt+N is used to enter Ņ, RightAlt+S gives Š. The problem is that the RightAlt key is equivalent (same scan codes) to the Ctrl and LeftAlt used together. For example, Ctrl+Alt+N is equivalent to RightAlt+N. If used as a shortcut, it will knock out the use of that accented character for input. The US International driver also uses these combinations for special characters.

Thanks a lot for your excellent suggestions, and I'm really glad that you enjoy using CN!

Also, as a software developer myself, I appreciate how small and lightweight CN is. At the moment I don't have it enabled at system startup (I was experimenting with Dropbox). CN starts up almost as quickly from scratch as it does to bring up a new note from an existing instance.

One question - what are the limitations of running multiple instances, each on a different notebook? Are the system-wide bindings the only thing that would be a problem?

Gunars

[ChrisCN]

Hi

I didn't do special 'tests' but used the beta all along without noticing any problems with the new features.

For now, is it possible to tweak the difference between a selected and unselected note? I have a hard time distinguishing them, especially when selecting multiple items.

I second this. I too have a hard time, recoginzing the active/selected note. I keep opening the wrong one by a 50/50 chance.

Thomas

+1

. Imo, the resizing feature does not need to get changed. It's fine to select the panel height by dragging it at the lower edge of the notes body.

+1

An alternative would be to introduce some special symbol like "*" or "?" to mean "any non-empty content". This actually plays well with the planned Wilcard-based search.

I like the idea of having an additional character - it gives me the feeling of beeing in control

Search for "Anywhere" and "Any Text Field" does not find some old notes of mine. For example a search for "TEST" will not find a note, which contains "TEST" in the title. If i create a new note with "TEST" in title, it will be found. I exported to XML and checked the content, but nothing special i could consider the cause of this. It does work for other search scopes, such as "Text and Title".

After doing some more tests, it appears, that "Search inside words" is broken. If i turn it off, my note will be found again.

I too noticed a situation where I couldn't find some notes and I thought it had something to do with switching between sections. But until now I could not reproduce it I will keep an eye on that.

[CintaNotes Developer]

I know this is very much a personal preference issue. Actually, between the tooltip and expanding field you mentioned, I think it's just fine on one line.

Great!

I'm also used to using Ctrl-N for a new note and would hate to lose that. I'm not too concerned with File->New and File->SaveAs shortcuts since those are not used very often. The File->Open however is used more frequently with multiple notebooks.

Decided on the following: File/New (Ctrl+E), File/Open (Ctrl+O), File/Save As (Ctrl+S), File/Close (Ctrl+W).

I would very strongly advise not to use any Ctrl+Alt+<letter> combination. There are quite a few non-English keyboard drivers for Windows that use the RightAlt key (previously called AltGr for alternate graphic, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key) to enter accented characters. For example, in the Latvian QWERTY driver, RightAlt+N is used to enter Ņ, RightAlt+S gives Š. The problem is that the RightAlt key is equivalent (same scan codes) to the Ctrl and LeftAlt used together. For example, Ctrl+Alt+N is equivalent to RightAlt+N. If used as a shortcut, it will knock out the use of that accented character for input. The US International driver also uses these combinations for special characters.

Thanks for the warning. Will avoid Ctrl+Alt shortcuts like a plague BTW there already these shortcuts used for View/Sort, are there any troubles, don't you know?

Also, as a software developer myself, I appreciate how small and lightweight CN is. At the moment I don't have it enabled at system startup (I was experimenting with Dropbox). CN starts up almost as quickly from scratch as it does to bring up a new note from an existing instance.

Thanks a lot for the appreciation. Even in C++, it is easy enough to make slow software, and this is a never-ending battle

One question - what are the limitations of running multiple instances, each on a different notebook? Are the system-wide bindings the only thing that would be a problem?

No real problems, CintaNotes was designed for this. Well, yes, you'll have to choose which instance will handle the cintanotes:// protocol and opening .db files, but that's about it. You can have separate hot keys and even separate tray icon color (View/Color Theme).

[CintaNotes Developer]

I didn't do special 'tests' but used the beta all along without noticing any problems with the new features.

Good to hear!

I like the idea of having an additional character - it gives me the feeling of beeing in control

Duly noted

I too noticed a situation where I couldn't find some notes and I thought it had something to do with switching between sections. But until now I could not reproduce it I will keep an eye on that.

This is a really worrying problem. Would be very obliged if you could provide some reproduction instructions!

[CintaNotes Developer]

In the meanwhile, 2.5 Beta 2 is here!
Would be grateful for any comments!

[gunars]

Will avoid Ctrl+Alt shortcuts like a plague BTW there already these shortcuts used for View/Sort, are there any troubles, don't you know?

I had been working with English text, so I missed those. Yes, Ctrl+Alt+ L, S and U knock out Ļ, Š and Ū for me. The other three will probably affect someone else. I think the wikipedia page mentioned which drivers use D, M and T.

[CintaNotes Developer]

Ok so first we need to collect all instances of where Ctrl+Alt shortcuts are used.
Here is the complete list, with my own replacement suggestions:

Context	Command	Old Shortcut	Suggested Shortcut
View/Sort By menu	<Multiple>	Ctrl+Alt+D/M/T/L/S/U	Alt+Shift+D/M/T/L/S/U
Edit menu, Note Editor	Copy Note Link	Ctrl+Alt+C	Alt+Shift+C
Note Editor	Paste Note Link	Ctrl+Alt+V	Alt+Shift+V
Note Editor	Insert Link To/Note	Ctrl+Alt+L	Alt+Shift+N
Note Editor	Insert Link To/URL	Alt+Shift+L	Alt+Shift+U
Note Editor	Insert Link To/File	Ctrl+Shift+L	Alt+Shift+F
Note Editor	Save Note not updating modified date	Ctrl+Alt+S	Ctrl+Shift+S
Note Editor	Delete Link	Ctrl+Alt+D	Alt+Shift+D

Does everyone agree with suggested changes? Did I miss anything?
Thanks!

[gunars]

Even in C++, it is easy enough to make slow software, and this is a never-ending battle

Especially in C++, after learning C from Ritchie's 30 page paper (http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/cman.pdf) that makes K&R seem overly verbose. And then there's Stroustrup...

But those were simpler times

[gunars]

Does everyone agree with suggested changes? Did I miss anything?
Thanks!

Seems like a good set of bindings. Thanks!

[Thomas Lohrum]

Actually this feature could be implemented by automatically limiting the search scope to non-empty values, when i select the appropriate filter. This would affect "Any Text field", "Text+Title", "Text only", "Title only", "Remarks" and "Link". In other words, if i select "Remarks", the result list would show me all notes where remarks has some value. A special filter is applied only, when i start typing some value.

I agree that the function to "display only having some value" is currently missing. However, there is one problem with your suggestion:
the negative queries will get broken. E.g. when limiting the search to links and entering "-cintanotes.com" I'd expect to see all notes coming NOT from cintanotes.com, including those without any URL.

I don't agree. If i would do a search "-cintanotes.com" i'd expect all notes having a link, but the link does not match "cintanotes.com". Why would i want to see notes with an empty link in that case? If i am interested in notes containing no link i would simply set the filter to link without entering any value to the search text. Which brings me back to where my discussion started

Thomas

[Thomas Lohrum]

Ok so first we need to collect all instances of where Ctrl+Alt shortcuts are used. Here is the complete list, with my own replacement suggestions:

Well, changing shortcuts can be tedious. I will not stand in your way, though. Especially since i had asked for shortcut changes in the past myself.

Regarding the INSERT LINK shortcut:

I am not able to remember the three combinations (may be i don't want to remember). I suggest to have one shortcut and one menu item only. When requesting to insert a link, a small pop up could be shown, which would allow me to select the appropriate link type.

Thomas

[Thomas Lohrum]

This is a really worrying problem. Would be very obliged if you could provide some reproduction instructions!

I migrated from 2.4 to 2.5 beta 1. I don't think i did any serious changes to my notes, when i encountered the issue.

Thomas

[CintaNotes Developer]

Especially in C++, after learning C from Ritchie's 30 page paper (http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/cman.pdf) that makes K&R seem overly verbose. And then there's Stroustrup...
But those were simpler times

Yes, and the software was also simpler

Seems like a good set of bindings. Thanks!

Thanks to you for pointing out the problem!

I don't agree. If i would do a search "-cintanotes.com" i'd expect all notes having a link, but the link does not match "cintanotes.com". Why would i want to see notes with an empty link in that case? If i am interested in notes containing no link i would simply set the filter to link without entering any value to the search text. Which brings me back to where my discussion started

Well this is arguable, but I tend to agree. Indeed there's little reason to show all notes without a link.
But I'm wary of this becoming a hidden feature.
This is an important change: before, the operation of selecting the search scope was harmless - not doing anything till you actually type something in the search box. Now it becomes active, changing the scope will change the notes that get displayed. I can easily see this as a usability problem. Let's ask Chris, gunars, Noddy, and anyone else interested which way they would prefer it?

[CintaNotes Developer]

Regarding the INSERT LINK shortcut:
I am not able to remember the three combinations (may be i don't want to remember). I suggest to have one shortcut and one menu item only. When requesting to insert a link, a small pop up could be shown, which would allow me to select the appropriate link type.

This is a good suggestion, but unfortunately it requires quite a bit of work. I've put it down for future implementation.
For the time being, the new shortcuts will have to do

[Thomas Lohrum]

I don't agree. If i would do a search "-cintanotes.com" i'd expect all notes having a link, but the link does not match "cintanotes.com". Why would i want to see notes with an empty link in that case? If i am interested in notes containing no link i would simply set the filter to link without entering any value to the search text. Which brings me back to where my discussion started

Well this is arguable, but I tend to agree. Indeed there's little reason to show all notes without a link. But I'm wary of this becoming a hidden feature. This is an important change: before, the operation of selecting the search scope was harmless - not doing anything till you actually type something in the search box. Now it becomes active, changing the scope will change the notes that get displayed. I can easily see this as a usability problem.

I understand your considerations better now. Thanks. I quess you are right and it is best not to make a change. My suggestion would work easily for links and remarks, but not for the others. As you suggested it might be better to have a special character to select "non empty" values.

Thomas

[Thomas Lohrum]

Regarding the INSERT LINK shortcut:
I am not able to remember the three combinations (may be i don't want to remember). I suggest to have one shortcut and one menu item only. When requesting to insert a link, a small pop up could be shown, which would allow me to select the appropriate link type.

This is a good suggestion, but unfortunately it requires quite a bit of work. I've put it down for future implementation. For the time being, the new shortcuts will have to do

I posted a request here http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/343073-combine-insert-link-url-note-file-functionality/ for users to easily vote on the issue.

Thomas

[gunars]

Well this is arguable, but I tend to agree. Indeed there's little reason to show all notes without a link.
But I'm wary of this becoming a hidden feature.
This is an important change: before, the operation of selecting the search scope was harmless - not doing anything till you actually type something in the search box. Now it becomes active, changing the scope will change the notes that get displayed. I can easily see this as a usability problem. Let's ask Chris, gunars, Noddy, and anyone else interested which way they would prefer it?

I think this is a similar situation to the case where there are a number of notes with one or more tags and some that are untagged. If you search in tags-only with '-some_tag', you'll get back not only the tagged ones that don't have 'some_tag', but all untagged ones as well. It's always good if everything works the same way without special cases.

[gunars]

Add the 'All' message count to the section name in the tabs (e.g. "Clips (12)"). This would give a quick overview of how many items are in each section without having to visit each one.

Good idea! Added to the roadmap here: http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/337 ... tion-tabs/
Will be implemented as soon as it gets 10 votes.

Hmm ... I don't think I've seen 10 users participating in the forums lately (although there might be lurkers). It might take a while to get to 10. As they say here in Chicago, "How much does each vote cost?" I did post a note to outlinersoftware.com about the bitsdujour sale as well as info about 2.5 - does that count for a vote?

[CintaNotes Developer]

I understand your considerations better now. Thanks. I quess you are right and it is best not to make a change. My suggestion would work easily for links and remarks, but not for the others. As you suggested it might be better to have a special character to select "non empty" values.

Let's collect some more feedback on the issue.
Added this to roadmap: http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/350 ... not-empty/