Viewing notes

johnk
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Viewing notes

Postby johnk » Thu May 28, 2009 12:38 pm

I'm a CintaNotes newbie, so apologies in advance if I've just missed a feature, or if this topic has been discussed before (difficult to know what to search for).

I've just started using CN, and it's a fine product. Many of the notes I save are quite lengthy, but for ease of scanning through the list I keep the "maximum displayed text lines" quite low. It seems however, that the only way to view the whole note is to enter edit mode (i.e. bring up the note in the separate edit window by hitting "Enter").

If that is the case, and it's not been suggested before, I'd like to suggest a toggle key to view the entire selected note "in place", i.e. within the list view. This would be a "read-only" option. This would make for much quicker reading of notes within CN.

Alternatively, of course, you could add a third frame, where the entire text of the selected note is always on view (again read-only). Something like the three-frame vertical view in modern email clients. But I'm guessing that that would go against the whole design philosophy of CN.
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby Noddy330 » Thu May 28, 2009 12:46 pm

Like the idea of a 3rd frame
Nod
toddclausen
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby toddclausen » Thu May 28, 2009 1:48 pm

Personally I think there should be a menu option to show the entire note for all notes instead of a maximum of 100 lines. Would this solve the issue? I kind of like the idea of a third pane, but that is getting farther into the bloatware category...
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby johnk » Thu May 28, 2009 3:42 pm

toddclausen wrote:Personally I think there should be a menu option to show the entire note for all notes instead of a maximum of 100 lines. Would this solve the issue? I kind of like the idea of a third pane, but that is getting farther into the bloatware category...

I'd prefer my original suggestion of just expanding the selected note using a toggle shortcut. It seems neater to me. Showing the entire note for all notes in a big database seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

And I'm not sure that I'd necessarily call a third frame "bloatware" -- it's just a viewing window; but it would change the look of the program, and it's quite possible that might go against the developer's design parameters.
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby kokain » Thu May 28, 2009 4:02 pm

I like the third pane idea. I also like the "zoom in" toggle idea. If both where added then they would prob be configable. That way people could do the minimal look or the larger 3 pane full on note reader.
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby Midas » Thu May 28, 2009 4:14 pm

How about a hover activated screen tip window -- with little arrows on top and bottom for scrolling longer notes -- easily dismissed with escape?
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby ale » Thu May 28, 2009 11:14 pm

Hello johnk, at the moment we can also scroll long notes with left and right keys on the keyboard.

Maybe the idea of a third frame goes against the philosophy of CintaNotes because the help file explains that Cinta is a spanish word which means something like "tape" and the interface now is thought and built around the list (tape) of notes. Alex as always will tell us.

We have feature number 93 in roadmap "In-place note editing", I think new ways to view notes may be also related to editing and discussed together.

By the way I was wondering right now if there is a way to scroll long notes with the mouse. If not implemented we could have a key plus mouse wheel to scroll the content of the selected note. For example something like shift pressed and scroll wheel, just to give an idea, what do you think about it?
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Fri May 29, 2009 6:15 am

Hi guys,

let me tell you about the philosophy;)

The main philosophy of CintaNotes is not "thou should use tape" or whatever ;) It is more like "features should be organic, effective, discoverable and convenient".

"Organic" means that the feature shouldn't stick out of the program like an alien body. A non-organic feature IMO is the one that while coming in handy sometimes, still isn't really connected with the product's main goal and functionality. (Example of non-organic features: HTML authoring in MS Word, wave editing in Nero Burning ROM)

"Effective" means - should be lightweight and not hurt performance and memory footprint, or be optional to use.

"Discoverable" means - a new user should be able to discover that this feature exists without reading help.

"Convenient" means that a feature is easy to use correctly and hard to misuse, and that a significant number of users will use this feature on a regular basis.

So if the suggested implementation of a third frame will seem to satisfy all these criteria, off we go.

By the way I was wondering right now if there is a way to scroll long notes with the mouse. If not implemented we could have a key plus mouse wheel to scroll the content of the selected note. For example something like shift pressed and scroll wheel, just to give an idea, what do you think about it?

Actually I was thinking about this myself! E.g. using spacebar to 'pin' the note to its place and then scroll it using up/down keys, or mouse wheel.
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby johnk » Fri May 29, 2009 12:09 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:So if the suggested implementation of a third frame will seem to satisfy all these criteria, off we go.

That's good to hear. And I like your "philosophy" -- that list of criteria should weed out all unworthy features.

Whatever route you go, I do think CN needs a quick way to view a read-only version of the selected note. Opening the edit window every time you want to view the whole note is the only aspect of CN I would describe as inelegant.

I can't remember the first time I used CN, but I think that if I were a brand new CN user, and using instinct rather than reading the manual (see "Discoverable" above!), I think I would expect that hitting "Enter" would bring up a read-only version of the entire note (in place in the list or, possibly, in a separate window), rather than opening an edit window. But maybe that's just me...
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Fri May 29, 2009 12:26 pm

johnk wrote:
CintaNotes Developer wrote:So if the suggested implementation of a third frame will seem to satisfy all these criteria, off we go.

That's good to hear. And I like your "philosophy" -- that list of criteria should weed out all unworthy features.

Whatever route you go, I do think CN needs a quick way to view a read-only version of the selected note. Opening the edit window every time you want to view the whole note is the only aspect of CN I would describe as inelegant.

I can't remember the first time I used CN, but I think that if I were a brand new CN user, and using instinct rather than reading the manual (see "Discoverable" above!), I think I would expect that hitting "Enter" would bring up a read-only version of the entire note (in place in the list or, possibly, in a separate window), rather than opening an edit window. But maybe that's just me...


But why the fact that you can edit a note in this separate window doesn't let you consider it to be a window for note reading as well?

And also consider please that there are a lot of people with different perspective and mind-model. There are people who insist on INPLACE note editing - that is, click on the note and you're already editing it right there in the list. These people will immediately start to ask for possibility to edit the note in your "reading" window. But there also are people who want to see several notes at once, and they need separate windows...
Alex
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby johnk » Fri May 29, 2009 1:23 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:And also consider please that there are a lot of people with different perspective and mind-model.

Absolutely. That's why I ended my last note by saying "but maybe that's just me...". We all have different viewpoints, no-one is right or wrong, but hopefully we all contribute ideas and viewpoints that help you reach decisions on the future of the product.

But I've probably veered away from my original post. So just to summarise...my own personal view would be that the best option would be a permanent third frame showing the complete text of the currently selected note. In my view it's the most efficient option. No clicks are required to view the currently selected note. It's always on view.

But if that's not a popular idea, then a toggle shortcut to view the entire text of the selected note in place in the list would also be a good option.

EDIT: If I'm turning this into a formal "suggestion", do I need to rename this thread to begin with [Suggestion], or should I start a new thread?
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby doublewitt » Fri May 29, 2009 10:17 pm

Maybe they could simply put an icon with arrows like in this tiny pic. This can collapse/expand the note for conveniant viewing. This little icon can be on the left or right of the title of the note. So if you selected 5 rows to show for each note, you then can click on the icon
2009-05-29_180913.png
collapse/expand
2009-05-29_180913.png (610 Bytes) Viewed 94662 times
to expand the view for the entire note and do the same to collapse it. After that, maybe there could be a right-click on the note option that offers to collapse/expand all notes in one go or do the same for all selected notes... a combination of these would be interesting. I don't know if that's difficult to implement, but that's the way I would like it to be... ;)
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:51 am

doublewitt wrote:Maybe they could simply put an icon with arrows like in this tiny pic. This can collapse/expand the note for conveniant viewing. This little icon can be on the left or right of the title of the note. So if you selected 5 rows to show for each note, you then can click on the icon
2009-05-29_180913.png
to expand the view for the entire note and do the same to collapse it. After that, maybe there could be a right-click on the note option that offers to collapse/expand all notes in one go or do the same for all selected notes... a combination of these would be interesting. I don't know if that's difficult to implement, but that's the way I would like it to be... ;)


Would the UP/DOWN arrow key behave differently when the note is expanded? Should there be an option to use this mode for editing as well?
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:50 am

johnk wrote:
CintaNotes Developer wrote:But I've probably veered away from my original post. So just to summarise...my own personal view would be that the best option would be a permanent third frame showing the complete text of the currently selected note. In my view it's the most efficient option. No clicks are required to view the currently selected note. It's always on view.

But if that's not a popular idea, then a toggle shortcut to view the entire text of the selected note in place in the list would also be a good option.

EDIT: If I'm turning this into a formal "suggestion", do I need to rename this thread to begin with [Suggestion], or should I start a new thread?

The "[Suggestion]" prefix and the poll are required for feature request to participate in the voting.
Whether to rename this thread or create a new one is really up to you. If you rename this thread, please edit the title and the first post so that it unmistakably describes the suggested solution (third frame) as the feature to vote for.

I think it would be better to create two [Suggestion] threads: one for third frame, and one for note zoom-in (which is #157 on the roadmap). This way we will be able to see which approach is more popular, but it will spread votes, and as I said, it's up to you ;)
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby Midas » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:50 pm

As I don't like much the three pane layout proposal, and in case my earlier suggestion was misunderstood, I'm posting here a screencap depicting an extended tooltip (presently, file properties as shown by InfoTag Magic windows shell extension).

I was unable to find in my system an example of an even bigger tooltip with the scrolling arrows at top & bottom I mentioned to show here, but I have seen around plenty, even in webapps... This solution avoids further complicating CN interface, as it would keep it in the present form, and the tooltip could easily be dismissed by clicking, escaping or setting some permanent option.
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Tooltip screencap...
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby johnk » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:02 pm

The poll on the three-frame view is now up, for those who are interested.
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby Midas » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:06 pm

I have seen the poll johnk. I'm just reserving my vote for later, in order not to tip the balance right away... :mrgreen:
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby kranor » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:38 pm

ooooo I'm torn......I like both ideas, the three pane view and the tool tips.......Don't know how to vote.......I guess this on will divide into three camps....Midas for nay I guess, johnk for yay and me leading the fence sitters.... :lol:
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby toddclausen » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:19 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:Hi guys,

let me tell you about the philosophy;)

The main philosophy of CintaNotes is not "thou should use tape" or whatever ;) It is more like "features should be organic, effective, discoverable and convenient".

"Organic" means that the feature shouldn't stick out of the program like an alien body. A non-organic feature IMO is the one that while coming in handy sometimes, still isn't really connected with the product's main goal and functionality. (Example of non-organic features: HTML authoring in MS Word, wave editing in Nero Burning ROM)

"Effective" means - should be lightweight and not hurt performance and memory footprint, or be optional to use.

"Discoverable" means - a new user should be able to discover that this feature exists without reading help.

"Convenient" means that a feature is easy to use correctly and hard to misuse, and that a significant number of users will use this feature on a regular basis.

So if the suggested implementation of a third frame will seem to satisfy all these criteria, off we go.

Alex - You should place this in the FAQ or some other visible place. It's a great design philosophy!
-Todd
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Re: Viewing notes

Postby Noddy330 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:14 pm

Sounds a good idea to me - but hasn't got many votes.

If you want this feature then vote for it at http://roadmap.cintanotes.com/topic/3218-three-frame-view-full-text-of-selected-note-always-in-view/

Nod

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