[Taking][Managing] Default tags or Tag Sets

[bicimondo]

Hi,

First let me say this is a most wonderful program. I've been a longtime Evernote user but Cintanotes threatens to usurp the former.

I have read through the roadmap and other pertinent posts and feel very encouraged that this will turn out to be a giant-killer in many ways.

One feature I would like very much would be the ability to set default tags or "tag sets". I'm aware that tagging method is highly personal and everyone has his own way of doing it. Some may leave every note untagged and do it in bulk at the end of the day. Others like to tag each note right after it is added. I tend to gravitate towards the latter as otherwise you run the risk of laziness and unexpected workflow causing a backlog of untagged notes.

To that end, I would like to suggest including a feature that allows the user to store different sets of default tags or tagsets. An example:

My work entails daily clipping from specific online publications. I can easily clip 20-30 notes in an hour's of reading from the same source. These notes need to have the same tags (more or less) applied to them. If it's possible to store sets of "default tags" (to be chosen on the fly by the user if need be) and applied to each note without further user input, the workflow would be made much more fluid and user-friendly. So instead of adding each note and then having to tag it (not discounting auto-complete), each note can have the chosen default "tags of the moment" applied unobtrusively in the background until it is time to choose another set of tags.

I find the above method to be a desirable alternative to bulk tagging after having added a number of notes and hope the developer would consider adding this option.

Thanks and regards.

[CintaNotes Developer]

Hello bicimondo,

sorry for the late reply!

Thanks for your suggestion, I find it to be very sound.
However I have one question: how to deal with the situation that the user forgets to reset these default tags after clipping from one source? Coming after awhile, he will be looking in "untagged" but the new notes won't be there. What do you think?

[Brains]

Coming after awhile, he will be looking in "untagged" but the new notes won't be there. What do you think?

The best way to avoid such situations is not to create them by using, say, toothbrush for sweeping up the room. The default tag option is very clever instrument for research clipping, but the entire conception of tag cataloging is darn wrong. Just return tags to where they belong (as a searching feature) and give us users a maybe dully mainstream, but at least working tree outliner interface.

[CintaNotes Developer]

The best way to avoid such situations is not to create them by using, say, toothbrush for sweeping up the room. The default tag option is very clever instrument for research clipping, but the entire conception of tag cataloging is darn wrong. Just return tags to where they belong (as a searching feature) and give us users a maybe dully mainstream, but at least working tree outliner interface.

Thanks for the remark. Actually these issues are independent. The original question was: how do I set default categorization for new notes without it being a pain later. Outliner interface doesn't answer this question either.

As for the tree interface vs. tags, I've already commented on that in the dedicated topic.

[Brains]

The original question was: how do I set default categorization for new notes without it being a pain later.

Okay, sticking to the topic: let's see if the problem really exists.
Look, you simply take, say, the Brussels UDC as a basic starting ‘out-of-the-box’ solution (not that I like this classification very much, but it doesn't need the localization effort). Just leave the user their right to add custom sub-categories and temporarily hide — not to remove! — those they doesn't currently need.
Now, where is the pain? Starting a new clipping session, user selects the default tag (either selects none!), and still has an option to override the default at the final step of adding a new clip. All tags are links to a records in a part of a CintaNotes clip file; if user decides to edit or delete a custom tag, this activity won't ruin the general order.

[kranor]

How about this?

4 new clipping hot keys set to WIN + ALT + 1, 2, 3, 4
User configurable auto tag based on clip key used.

IE

clip key one auto tags with Cars
clip key two auto tags with Shopping

So whilst looking at the latest item on think geek you press Clip key 1 and the note is saved with the shopping tag.

As far as I can see this would be a happy medium between those that do and those that don't?

What do you all think?

[CintaNotes Developer]

Okay, sticking to the topic: let's see if the problem really exists.
Look, you simply take, say, the Brussels UDC as a basic starting ‘out-of-the-box’ solution (not that I like this classification very much, but it doesn't need the localization effort). Just leave the user their right to add custom sub-categories and temporarily hide — not to remove! — those they doesn't currently need.
Now, where is the pain? Starting a new clipping session, user selects the default tag (either selects none!), and still has an option to override the default at the final step of adding a new clip. All tags are links to a records in a part of a CintaNotes clip file; if user decides to edit or delete a custom tag, this activity won't ruin the general order.

What is the "final step of adding a new clip"? If "open in editor after clipping" option is not selected, there is no final step. Do you suggest making opening new clips in editor obligatory, thus rendering the highly-demanded "silent clipping" mode completely useless?

[CintaNotes Developer]

How about this?

4 new clipping hot keys set to WIN + ALT + 1, 2, 3, 4
User configurable auto tag based on clip key used.
...
What do you all think?

I think that unfortunately this won't work well. You need to remember many key combinations and which of them maps to which tags (and they will be constantly changing, which is good if you want to keep your memory in shape, but bad if you want to get your work done as efficiently as possible).

I guess the auto-tagging feature like sorting rules in Outlook will work better ("All notes taken from bash.org => tag with 'fun'", or something similar), although not perfect either.

[kranor]

I think that unfortunately this won't work well. You need to remember many key combinations and which of them maps to which tags (and they will be constantly changing, which is good if you want to keep your memory in shape, but bad if you want to get your work done as efficiently as possible).

Ah but this would sit next to the standard no tag clipping and would be user choice. This would keep happy those that do and those that don't.
For myself if I were to use this system I would only have 2 auto tags setup 1 saying SAP the other saying REGISTRY. These 2 would cover about 80% of my tagging, and wouldn't be changed (unless I change Job )

[CintaNotes Developer]

Ah but this would sit next to the standard no tag clipping and would be user choice. This would keep happy those that do and those that don't.
For myself if I were to use this system I would only have 2 auto tags setup 1 saying SAP the other saying REGISTRY. These 2 would cover about 80% of my tagging, and wouldn't be changed (unless I change Job )

Yes and 640Kb of memory should be enough for everybody (c)
This approach doesn't scale well and this is why I'd rather seek another solution.

How about this one?
1) Notes are automatically tagged using currently selected tags
2) Tag selection gets automatically reset to "All" after say 1hr (adjustable option) of inactivity.

[kranor]

God haven't heard that quote in a while!

I'm starting to think that there isn't a one fit solution for this. The way I see it you have 3 groups of people

1. Never need auto tag.
2. Needs a fast changing and flexible auto tag system. (I guess your latest idea fits here)
3. Needs a few tags easily selected that change rarely. (My idea here I think)

To be honest When I am at work I would firmly sit in group 3. But at home would move more to group 2.
From a group point 3 point of view, when I first get into work in the morning I am barely awake, and have a standard pattern of work to do whilst I wake up (Coffee, Toilet, more coffee, E-mail, BBC news, More coffee, check error logs, breakfast and by that time I am Human again ) I wouldn't like to add the task of setting up the same old tags every morning.
Yet at home, whilst doing a distance learning course (Object Orientated Principles in Java currently but always have at least 2 different courses on) I would be tagging clips for only one subject for an hour or two and then changing my subject matter and therefore my tagging requirement.
I think we need some more input by other users to see if they can move the idea along a little more.

[CintaNotes Developer]

Maybe the upcoming in the commercial version "Rule-based tag assignment" can help with No3?
If you can identify some unique keywords or source applications/documents (basically regexps on clipped text and window titles) for each tag, this should be the way to go.

Actually the preferred way should still be No 1 - clip first, bulk-tag later. Yes this doesn't suit everyone's habits and needs, but I'm wondering if this is something worth enforcing like brushing teeth or any other good habit... Because guess what - however sophisticated, automatic tagging can make mistakes. So automatically assigned tags will need manual review anyway.

[HotPepperMan]

How about populating a DDLB with 'most recently used tags'? Just a thought...

[kranor]

thinking about it you may well be right about the rule based tagging. as for the auto tagging errors, I guess the easiest way to to carry out that is yes auto tag but every auto tag will automatically receive another tag stating '@uto' then people can call up the auto tags and check them......