[Search] Improve Search Method (Ability to exclude tags from search) (#187)

Vote for or against this feature:

Implement it asap (+2)
26
60%
Would be nice to have (+1)
12
28%
I don't need it personally (-1)
1
2%
Don't do it (-2)
4
9%
 
Total votes: 43
ZEE
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[Search] Improve Search Method (Ability to exclude tags from search) (#187)

Postby ZEE » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:41 am

IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

The search functionality is very basic. It should be improved by adding "+" and "-" sign in front of words to search like google search. "+" for including a word in search and "-" for excluding a word in search.

Here is an example (problem) of office work list with 100 notes [If the list is small (about 10-20 notes), that is not a big deal to do that manually] to signify the need for this improvement.

1. I attach a tag named “office” to each note for office work in cinta notes.
2. When a work gets done, I attach a new tag “done” to that note.

3. Now it is possible search completed work notes: by entering "done" tag in search box
4. And also it is possible to search all office notes: by entering "office" tag in search box

PROBLEM
But what if I want to display all uncompleted work notes: <b>No way to do that</b>

SOLUTION
FIRST: add done tag and remove office tag
Instead of just tagging completed work as "done"; if "office" tag is also removed from completed notes then we can display uncompleted notes by entering "done" tag in search box. (but this will pose a problem if there are more work categories(personal, home etc) that contain same "done" tag on completion. Therefore I don't recommend it)

SECOND: improve search method by allowing to use "+" and "-"sign
However, the google search has more way to search than just adding "+" and "-". eg. Quotes (“…exact text here…”) for exact match, site search method etc. But at least cinta notes should be improved by allowing "+" sign and "-".
Last edited by ZEE on Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [suggestion] IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:11 pm

This is a good idea, but I don't get what is the "+" sign for. Actually only the specially treated "-" sign is needed to get the functionality that you want.
Alex
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Re: [suggestion] IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

Postby Midas » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:17 pm

Posted in wrong thread, reposting here:
I like this idea for search modifiers, but think that '+' is redundant -- if a search term is present and not modified, it can be assumed that the search should heed it; however the '-' would make a significant improvement... :)

While thinking of this, why not use the '+' for AND operator and '|' for OR? With this three modifiers and the regular wildcard characters ('?' for a single char, '*' for any string except zero lenght) you'd have the foundation of a search syntax, simple in principle, but broad in scope. :geek:

EDIT: Still pondering this and the '+' I meant for 'explicit AND operator' since current 'some search' and proposed 'some+search' would be practically equivalent; but then 'some search' could be reserved for an exact string match, while 'some+search' could retrieve notes with both terms; also 'some|search+other|term' would retrieve notes having a least one term of each set -- which also rather demonstrates the need for some form of bracketing (round, square, angle, or whatever) for making expressions easier to understand, like this '(some|search+other|term)' or even this '(some|search)+(other|term)', which are in fact equivalent too...
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Re: [suggestion] IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

Postby ZEE » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:47 am

CintaNotes Developer wrote:This is a good idea, but I don't get what is the "+" sign for. Actually only the specially treated "-" sign is needed to get the functionality that you want.


OK, it needs more explanation and definitely I will do!!!!

if you just concentrate on my "office notes" example; you are right; no need for a "+" sign; because there is only two terms(tags) to search and we can just solve it by using “-“ sign; but I want more like google search; if there are more terms then definitely a "+" sign will be required.

And the significance of "+" sign will be clear by the example given below:

Let’s take three strings:

1. Norton antivirus trial
2. Norton internet security trial
3. Norton corporate edition

And I want to search online only for a "antivirus" product that developed by "norton"

Method1what I do
I will enter "+norton +antivirus" in the google search: and search
result will display only string no. 1 "norton antivirus trial"; that I want

Method2what you do
you will enter "norton antivirus" : and search
result will display all the three strings "norton antivirus trial","norton internet security trial" and "norton corporate edition"; while you want Norton antivirus only

So, what is much better; definitely Method1 with "+" sign

anything else method leftYES

you can still get the same result as in method1 with "-" sign only; by the method3 given below

method3what you do
you will enter "norton antivirus -security -corporate": and search
result will display only string no. 1 "norton antivirus trial"; that you want;

OK, you can use method3 by preceding all other Norton products name with a “-“ sign in the keyword field. But only if, you already know how many type of products developed by Norton.

CONCLUSION

1. method1: is with “+” and “-“; leads to desired result SUCCESSFUL
2. method2: is without any sign; leads to undesired result. FAIL
3. method3: is with “-“ sign only; depends on your own know-how. What if, you don’t know much about a product? Definitely undesired result!! Also you need to enter more search keywords than method1; and the number of keywords will increase to 3,4,5..................as the length of the search string increase.FAIL

CRITERIA TO BE FOLLOWED BY THE CINTANOTES SEARCH ALGORITHM

1. a keyword preceded by “+” sign must be matched anywhere in the note to display it as a query result
2. a keyword preceded by “-“ sign shouldn’t be present anywhere in the note to display it as a query result

OPTIONAL FURTHER READINGS

As you are a programmer, may be the concept of preceding search keywords with “+” and “-“ signs misleading you. Therefore here is the real difference between these signs and logical operators used in programming languages.

From the programmer point of view, there is three logical operators: AND(&), OR(|), NOT(!). First two are binary operator and third one is a unary operator. While the “+” and “-“ and “……”(double quotes) signs are symbolic representation used by google for ordinary computer users to search online with ease.

However, many people interchange them:
“+” sign with AND(&)
“-“ with NOT(!)

Is it OK to interchange them!!!!!.................NO…………as you know AND is a binary operator and the “+” sign used in google search is applicable to a single world only like a unary operator. However, you can interchange NOT with “-“ sign, because both work as unary operator. And this is the reason why you think a need for “-“ sign only. But really both “+” and “-“ signs has their own importance in search query.

GOOGLE SEARCH METHODS DESCRIPTION

1. a keyword preceded by “+” sign must be matched anywhere in the webpage to display it as a search result
2. a keyword preceded by “-“ sign shouldn’t be present anywhere in the webpage to display it as a search result
3. a keyword or string(bunch of keywords) contained in “………..” double quotes must be exactly matched(e.g. in the same order) anywhere in the webpage to display it as a search result. The difference between “+” sign and “……” double quotes search is that when using “+” sign, the order of keywords is not considered.

Wasn’t it too long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........................

Let’s now finish the session with some examples of google search (keywords preceded with “+”, “-“ and without any sign) with the above mentioned three search strings:

Note
1. the “+” or “-“ sign must be attached with words without any space between them. e.g. “Norton +antivirus” is correct, while “Norton + antivirus” is incorrect. If a space is used between sign and word, then the sign will be treated as a mathematical symbol

2. the “-“ sign take precedence over “+” sign (*see example no. 8)


1. search using “+” sign
Search query: +Norton +antivirus
Result: string no. 1 “Norton antivirus trial”

2. mixed search using “+” sign and without sign keyword
Search query: +Norton antivirus
Result: all strings: “Norton antivirus trial”, “Norton internet security trial” and “Norton corporate edition”

3. mixed search using “+” sign and without sign keyword
Search query: Norton +antivirus
Result: string no. 1: “Norton antivirus trial”

4. order of keywords is not important
Search query: +antivirus +Norton
Result: string no. 1 “Norton antivirus trial”

5. search using “-” sign
Search query: -antivirus
Result: string no. 2 and 3: “Norton internet security trial” and “Norton corporate edition”

6. search with “…...”double quotes
Search query: “antivirus Norton”
Result: None

7. search with “…...”double quotes: keyword order changed
Search query: “Norton antivirus”
Result: string no. 1: “Norton antivirus trial”

8. search using both “+” and “-” sign: “-“ sign take precedence over “+” sign
Search query: -antivirus +trial
Result: string no. 2: “Norton internet security trial”

* preceding trial with “+” give two strings no. 1 and 2, but first string also contain a word antivirus which is preceded by “-“ sign. Therefore according to precedence rule the first string will be omitted and final result will only show the string no. 2 as in example no. 8.
Last edited by ZEE on Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [suggestion] IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:19 am

To all people voting for this: keep in mind that implementing this will make search slower!

@ZEE:
Now it's clear, thanks for the detailed explanation.
So as I understand it Google needs the "+" operator because space by default means OR and not AND.
There's another way to do this - which I like a bit better because its less verbose and equivalently powerful: to make space mean AND, leave "-" as NOT and use "|" as an OR operator.

So your examples become:
1. +Norton +antivirus -> Norton antivirus

2. +Norton antivirus -> Norton
Note that here "antivirus" has absolutely no effect and can be omitted altogether, the result is the same

3. Norton +antivirus -> antivirus
Result: string no. 1: “Norton antivirus trial”
Note that here "Norton" has no effect, any other string with "antivirus" in it would be matched

4. +antivirus +Norton -> antivirus Norton

5. -antivirus
stays the same

6. “antivirus Norton”
stays the same

7. “Norton antivirus”
stays the same

8. -antivirus +trial -> -antivirus trial
No need for precedence here, what the condition says "find notes having `trial` AND not having `antivirus`"

Also you've omitted the most obvious example:
9. Search for antivirus OR trial:
antivirus trial -> antivirus | trial
I still like the second variant better even although it's one character longer, because it is more explicit.
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Re: [suggestion] IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

Postby CintaNotes Developer » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:08 am

@Zee: please don't use all caps in the subject, and specify the ticket #. Thanks!
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Re: [suggestion] IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

Postby ZEE » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:00 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:@Zee: please don't use all caps in the subject, and specify the ticket #. Thanks!


thnx for reminding!!!!!!!!

I will take care in future.
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Re: [suggestion] IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

Postby toddclausen » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:02 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:To all people voting for this: keep in mind that implementing this will make search slower!

Could I suggest this be added as an extension? This is a nice to have feature for me, but I like the lightning speed of CintaNotes and its current search. I am all for it if it doesn't slow things down! Otherwise it will send CintaNotes into the realm of Bloatware...
-Todd
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Re: [suggestion] IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

Postby Noddy330 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:36 pm

toddclausen wrote:
CintaNotes Developer wrote:To all people voting for this: keep in mind that implementing this will make search slower!

Could I suggest this be added as an extension? This is a nice to have feature for me, but I like the lightning speed of CintaNotes and its current search. I am all for it if it doesn't slow things down! Otherwise it will send CintaNotes into the realm of Bloatware...

Agreed - don't slow ContaNotes down.
Nod
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Re: [suggestion] IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

Postby ZEE » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:16 pm

CintaNotes Developer wrote:To all people voting for this: keep in mind that implementing this will make search slower!

@ZEE:
Now it's clear, thanks for the detailed explanation.
So as I understand it Google needs the "+" operator because space by default means OR and not AND.
There's another way to do this - which I like a bit better because its less verbose and equivalently powerful: to make space mean AND, leave "-" as NOT and use "|" as an OR operator.

So your examples become:
1. +Norton +antivirus -> Norton antivirus

2. +Norton antivirus -> Norton
Note that here "antivirus" has absolutely no effect and can be omitted altogether, the result is the same

3. Norton +antivirus -> antivirus
Result: string no. 1: “Norton antivirus trial”
Note that here "Norton" has no effect, any other string with "antivirus" in it would be matched

4. +antivirus +Norton -> antivirus Norton

5. -antivirus
stays the same

6. “antivirus Norton”
stays the same

7. “Norton antivirus”
stays the same

8. -antivirus +trial -> -antivirus trial
No need for precedence here, what the condition says "find notes having `trial` AND not having `antivirus`"

Also you've omitted the most obvious example:
9. Search for antivirus OR trial:
antivirus trial -> antivirus | trial
I still like the second variant better even although it's one character longer, because it is more explicit.


Two reasons in my favor

1. The current version(M8) search depends only on AND operator, and I was unaware about the implementation of OR operator in cintanotes. Actually I thought, you will add NOT operator only.

2. Although your idea do the same as I requested but google treats a space char as OR operator and cintanotes as AND operator. Therefore, sometimes I(and other people who mostly use google search) can go wrong. Also because of the same reason (space char as OR operator in google by default), there was no example for OR operator.

Now everything is glass clear and fine.
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Re: [suggestion] IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

Postby ZEE » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:59 pm

Noddy330 wrote:
toddclausen wrote:
CintaNotes Developer wrote:To all people voting for this: keep in mind that implementing this will make search slower!

Could I suggest this be added as an extension? This is a nice to have feature for me, but I like the lightning speed of CintaNotes and its current search. I am all for it if it doesn't slow things down! Otherwise it will send CintaNotes into the realm of Bloatware...

Agreed - don't slow ContaNotes down.
Nod


Hey!!!!! .......Don't be downbeat with: "To all people voting for this: keep in mind that implementing this will make search slower!"

Here is the conclusion about this change

First thing, definitely the cintanotes search will go a little bit slower, but neither too slower nor the overall search time. In real the overall search time will be reduced in 99% cases.

WHY
Because in comparison to current version (M8), the new version search will be more refined with the use of two additional search operator: AND and NOT.

For example,
Let's suppose, you want to search a note and current version (M8) conduct a search in 1 second and search result display 20 out of 100 notes (my office work example at the top). And you can manually review each note in 1 minute. Thus the total time required to search the desired note=cintanotes search time(1 second) + your review time(20 minutes)

total search time for previous version(M8)=1 second + 20 minutes

In new version, search will be slower, let's extend it 10 times. Therefore the search time will be 10 seconds and also the refined search will give you less search result. Let's assume it will be half of the previous search that is 20/2=10 notes. Thus total time required to search the desired note=cintanotes search time(10 seconds) + your review time (10 minutes)

total search time for new version=10 second + 10 minutes

Now you can see the time difference yourself. The new version search performed better. Have you ever considered why google provide all the three logical operators and many other advanced search options instead of only one or two of them, so that the search go faster? Definitely, because by using three operators you can refine search much better and the overall search time will be shorten. A similar request is for [/b]wildcards[/b] that will also extend the cinta search time but the overall time will be shorten.
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Re: [suggestion] IMPROVE SEARCH METHOD

Postby toddclausen » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:09 pm

ZEE wrote:Hey!!!!! .......Don't be downbeat with: "To all people voting for this: keep in mind that implementing this will make search slower!"

I don't really think we are (I'm not) being down on the Idea. I think it is a GREAT idea, but IMHO less than 1% of people using Google even know about search operators and even fewer actually use them. I would guess the same would be true with many users of something like CintaNotes. That is why my vote is for this as an extension. The 99% that would never use this would wonder why search is so slow when their Google search is almost instantaneous. Those of us on the forum don't really count as representing the average user - we are the power users...
-Todd
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Re: [Suggestion] Improve Search Method (Ability to exclude tags from search) (#187)

Postby gravi_t » Sat May 02, 2009 9:42 pm

Being able to search for multiple labels is a great idea, I'd like to have it. I agree that the
space = AND
- = minus
| = OR
system would be best

Wildcard search would also be useful.

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